is moving from 5.1 to 7.1 worth the effort

[William Lemmerhirt]

Not having the space to go with surrounds and rears I went with 60 cm above seated ear level surrounds and front height in a 5.2.2 configuration.

Sounds very good and immersive and thinking in the future to go for 5.2.4 instead of 7.2.2.
So that’s my advice for you also, take some better surrounds and go for height.

Agree. I don't have a direct comparison but I've always read that 5.x.4 is more immersive than 7.x.2. Pretty sure atmos isn't on the table here though. I went from 5.3 to 7.3 and the difference is pretty subtle. And on top of that, 5.1 tracks that are upsampled to 7.1 via PLIIx suffer from matrixing and lose the discrete experience. I watch 5.1 movies in 5.1 to avoid that.
OP should hang surrounds on the wall and only use the in ceiling speakers as rear surrounds if convenient which it sounds like is the case.


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[yepimonfire]

Agree. I don't have a direct comparison but I've always read that 5.x.4 is more immersive than 7.x.2. Pretty sure atmos isn't on the table here though. I went from 5.3 to 7.3 and the difference is pretty subtle. And on top of that, 5.1 tracks that are upsampled to 7.1 via PLIIx suffer from matrixing and lose the discrete experience. I watch 5.1 movies in 5.1 to avoid that.
OP should hang surrounds on the wall and only use the in ceiling speakers as rear surrounds if convenient which it sounds like is the case.


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I've never had issues with pliix, it's probably the simplest and most foolproof as far as channel steering goes. Like a matrixed center channel, surround backs are derived from the sum and difference of the surrounds, along with phase angles that are different in the signal. One would be hard pressed to tell the difference between discrete and matrixed 7.1. Assuming the sound engineer has done his job properly, directional cues are already present in a 5.1 mix and even stereo mix. If an airplane flies over and into the surrounds, continuing behind, the phase should change, pliix picks up on this. If you've got a camcorder with stereo mics, try recording a passing car and replay it with plii or pliix, 9 times out of 10 you'll hear the car travel back through the surrounds. With a stereo orchestra recording in pliix movie mode, you'll hear almost entirely reflections coming from the surrounds, just like it would be in person, because the phase is different for reflected sound vs direct. The only real downside to matrixed channels is potential leakage from other channels.

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[William Lemmerhirt]

I've never had issues with pliix, it's probably the simplest and most foolproof as far as channel steering goes. Like a matrixed center channel, surround backs are derived from the sum and difference of the surrounds, along with phase angles that are different in the signal. One would be hard pressed to tell the difference between discrete and matrixed 7.1. Assuming the sound engineer has done his job properly, directional cues are already present in a 5.1 mix and even stereo mix. If an airplane flies over and into the surrounds, continuing behind, the phase should change, pliix picks up on this. If you've got a camcorder with stereo mics, try recording a passing car and replay it with plii or pliix, 9 times out of 10 you'll hear the car travel back through the surrounds. With a stereo orchestra recording in pliix movie mode, you'll hear almost entirely reflections coming from the surrounds, just like it would be in person, because the phase is different for reflected sound vs direct. The only real downside to matrixed channels is potential leakage from other channels.

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Well, I can't say that's been my experience. I'm a little short on time but wanted to respond.
IME, PLIIx turns my rear sound field into a diffusive blob. Just like dipoles. There a many examples, but the scene in which I decided to give up on pliix is from bram stokers stokers Dracula. (My BD is 5.1) Van helsing comes to visit Lucy, and the camera switches between her and Anthony Hopkins, and when he is on screen Lucy is placed behind the LP by about 5' and dead center. When I switch to pllix the whole thing collapses into a blob. There are many many other scenes but that is an easy one. I invite you to try that one if it's in your collection. Gotta go...


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[joed74]

Thanks all, I finally installed 2 surrounds (bose virtually invisible spkrs) 1 foot above seated position, on side walls. I now have a real 7.1. Kept previous surround speakers (which are located in-ceiling behind listening position) making them rears. Surrounds placed on sides makes a huge difference in the sound experience.

Adding the wiring in the walls was a tough job, fire block was in way. All the previous 5.1 wiring had been done during the home construction before drywall. Adding after the fact took a long time and long bit drilling to get through, not to mention fishing through foam insulation on one exterior wall. One drill attempt accidentally went out the exterior wall through the stucco, had the "uh oh! I see daylight!" moment, easy patch job though.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Nice job! Glad it worked out. Should've run zone 2 out of the stucco maybe? I mean since the hole was there and all. Lol

 

[brad1138]

W/o reading anything beyond the OP title, yes.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

I'd think that unless one has a huge room and can place several speakers properly in surround mode, it matters little 5.1 to 7.1. Just my 2 pesos worth.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I'd think that unless one has a huge room and can place several speakers properly in surround mode, it matters little 5.1 to 7.1. Just my 2 pesos worth.

I agree. 7.1, imo, needs at least 4' behind the LP to work right.

 

[panteragstk]

Since it sounds like you installed your new speakers at the sides (where your rear/side in 5.1 should have been) then you'll get a new sense of immersion that you didn't have before. It isn't that you went to 7.1 that helped. It's that you now have proper speaker placement.

I had 7.1 in the old theater (will have 7.1.4 if I can ever get time to start working on it) and I can say that the side speakers are what I get most of my surround from. I had my back speakers about 6' from the MLP and they were great in video games and such, but I didn't notice them much during movies. Some movies have great 7.1 tracks, but those are not the majority.

 

[2channel lover]

I've learned great deal here....just in time.

Planned on a 5.2.2 setup.

My RBH R5Bi surrounds just arrived last night...for the next day or two I will have them connected as the mains to get a few hours break in on them. This weekend I will get them installed as side rears most likely on speaker stands that will put them at ear height and slightly behind the LP.

While I was fishing speaking wire this weekend, I had given thought to a 7.2.2 setup (thinking more is better) since I moved the LP out from the back wall about 5'. I will halt that thinking for now.

 

[OhioGuy25]

I assume your system is properly calibrated and all speakers are level matched and speaker distances properly measured?

If so, then I agree with Ken in that going 7.1 could improve the situation. You could also forgo the ceiling speakers and get bigger, better surrounds mounted on the side wall or on stands and stick to 5.1

How do I calibrate and level match my speakers?

 

[Tankman]

In a word yes, I was on the fence about 7.1 or 5.1.2. It wasn't till I heard 7.2 on my son's set-up it convened me it was time to move on from 5.1. When Dolby Atmos came out I wasn't keen on it, wasn't much out there in Atoms till I heard Mad Max Fury Road on my son's set-up in 7.2. It removed all doubt.

 

[Pogre]

How do I calibrate and level match my speakers?

I didn't look at your specific model, but Marantz receivers should come with a measurement mic and Audyssey. Together they'll take audio readings of your specific room and auto calibrate for it.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

How do I calibrate and level match my speakers?

like pogre said, audyssey is an automatic calibration function that is pretty straightforward. If you need to do it manually, you'll. Red an spl meter placed at ear height in the LP(listening position) and using the internal test tone, set each channel to 75db. Most of us set the subwoofer to 78-80db.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

In a word yes, I was on the fence about 7.1 or 5.1.2. It wasn't till I heard 7.2 on my son's set-up it convened me it was time to move on from 5.1. When Dolby Atmos came out I wasn't keen on it, wasn't much out there in Atoms till I heard Mad Max Fury Road on my son's set-up in 7.2. It removed all doubt.

So does your son have 5.1.2, or 7.2?

 

[Tankman]

So does your son have 5.1.2, or 7.2?

Mr. Lemmerhirt,
He has 9.2 now, he added front Heights, his unit is a Yamaha 1050 as a pre-pro with a EMO XPA-5 driving the center, surrounds, and rear surrounds, XPA-2 driving L/R fronts and two Polk pro subs, the Yammy drives the heights. But when I heard Mad Max it was set in a 7.2. He added the front Heights about a year ago. It is a very sweet system them Polk LSi's are smooth man.

 

[OhioGuy25]

I agree, it would absolutely be worth it. IMO you're missing out on a lot with the current setup.


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Are you replying to me?

 

[OhioGuy25]

I didn't look at your specific model, but Marantz receivers should come with a measurement mic and Audyssey. Together they'll take audio readings of your specific room and auto calibrate for it.

I have a Yamaha HTR -5150

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Are you replying to me?

Actually, I'm not sure where that quote is from. Lol! In short, no. I did post in your 7.1 thread but that's not looking familiar.

 

[Pogre]

I have a Yamaha HTR -5150

I got you confused with the op. Oops.

Yamaha receivers have YPAO, which aims to do the same thing Audyssey does. I'm not as familiar with Yamaha as I am Denon. I'll have to look yours up.

*Edit: I can't find much on your model, but similar models do come with a calibration mic and YPAO. Do you have the manual?