is moving from 5.1 to 7.1 worth the effort

[joed74]

i have a newer construction 2 story home with a 5.1 home theater setup on first floor with 106" projection screen.

bowers and wilkins floorstanding 6.5" 3 way speakers
proficient 5.25 center in wall speaker
proficient 6.5 back surround in ceiling speakers
klipsch subwoofer
marantz sr7008

the surround experience feels subpar having just the two in ceiling rear speakers. little to no sound immersion.

i'm considering adding two side surround speakers in-wall to make full 7.1. there is no pre-wiring for those speakers and the walls have foam insulation. i also have a fire block. I would have to use a long flexibit drill bit to drill down to crawl space and fish the wires back up to the receiver.

room is about 19x19', no windows. 10 ft ceilings.

is this effort going to be worth the result? my wife is trying to talk me out of it.

 

[KenM10759]

In your case I do believe it would be a profound improvement. From what you describe the ceiling speakers you have are well behind the main listening position, so adding surrounds in the proper location (90 to 110º from the MLP) will really improve the effect.

 

[Dan Madden]

I assume your system is properly calibrated and all speakers are level matched and speaker distances properly measured?

If so, then I agree with Ken in that going 7.1 could improve the situation. You could also forgo the ceiling speakers and get bigger, better surrounds mounted on the side wall or on stands and stick to 5.1

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I agree, it would absolutely be worth it. IMO you're missing out on a lot with the current setup.


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[KEW]

I won't be quite the same, but you could always get your speakers and try a in-room mock-up before committing to the modifications to your home. That way you'll have a good idea of what you'll be getting. Hopefully you can get your speakers from somewhere that has a decent return policy.
I am assuming you speakers have a enclosure for the back side so you'll get roughly the same sound out of them in room as you would in wall.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, you are NOT missing out on a lot with your current setup, but it sounds like it will help in your case. I've done 6.1 in a very large room and though it helped, when I went to a room that didn't support it, I didn't miss it at all. Currently 5.1.

In ceiling speakers can work well for surround, but they have to be properly placed and calibrated. If they are located wrong, you will not get good surround. The current surround speaker setup is likely the issue.

 

[joed74]

the ceiling is high at 10' so i think that is part of the problem. the rear speakers are in proper position relative to seating and calibrated via audessey microphone with the receiver. these rears are angled speakers and have adjustable tweeter position. they are pointed to seat position. having center and front left right at ear height and the back speakers in a 10' ceiling seems to be the unoptimal piece, at least from the experience i am having in this room. i've been to a friends house with all ceilings in smaller room with lower ceilings and it sounds way better.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I don't think it's the ceiling height as much as having no sound information at the sides. There is just no way to fake that. I agree the mock up on the sides is a great idea. I'm sure you could find something to try this with.


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[j_garcia]

A buddy of mine did 7.1 in ceiling and it worked just fine. He had high ceilings (~12ft) too, so that is not the issue.

Are they behind the listening position slightly? Are you sitting right up against a wall?

 

[herbu]

You call your existing ceiling speakers "rear surrounds". Is that how you have them connected to your AVR/Amp? Regardless of where they're located, or what kind of speakers they are, the "rear" surround channels get much less sound than "side" surrounds. Besides, to my knowledge only blurays even have the rear surround channels, (7.1). Your AVR artificially creates the rear channels for 5.1 stuff.

If indeed your ceiling speakers are connected as "rear surrounds", try changing them to "Left & Right Surrounds" and see if it makes a difference. Your positioning is still not desirable, but it may be better than what you hear now.

 

[joed74]

The 'rear' ceiling speakers are connected to the surround L/R, not surround back L/R.

i like the idea of trying outside the wall without cutting or running wires to see how it feels. will let you all know when i try it next week.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd at least get better positions for surrounds before going 7ch. In ceiling like that just isn't the right dispersion pattern IMO; its only benefit is aesthetics. My brother did surround speakers like that, never liked that setup.

 

[yepimonfire]

As previously mentioned, your setup is the problem, not the number of channels. Surrounds aren't intended to be firing behind the listening position, but to the sides. The benefits 7.1 can be realized if your seating position is a significant distance from the back wall. It would be helpful if you post a picture or sketch up of the listening position and position of the speakers. If the in ceiling speakers are truly behind the listening position, it might be beneficial to use them as surround backs in conjunction with surrounds firing to the sides. Is there a reason you are set on using in ceiling or in wall speakers? It's sounds like this is a dedicated theater room so living room aesthetics shouldn't be a factor. Wall mounting would be a lot less of a hassle and sound a whole lot better. Ideally both the surrounds and surround backs should be placed on wall or in wall 2' above the listening position at 90-110° and 130°- 150° respectively. It's okay to place the surrounds higher so long as the speakers are angled towards the listening position. Considering you've already got a 9.2 receiver, if the current in ceiling speakers are overhead of the listening position, I would reassign the in ceiling speakers for top middle Atmos duty. Myself personally I would avoid using in ceiling speakers for any channels in a classic 5.1 or 7.1 set up, height channels aside, none of the sounds in the L/R surrounds or surround backs were intended to come from overhead. The use of in ceiling speakers for these channels is an aesthetic/space compromise, and a poor one at that.

Assuming the room is large enough and the MLP is at the proper distance, it's always worth it to add more channels to a surround setup. Money and practically (which shouldn't be a factor in a dedicated room) are the only reasons to not add more channels.

Just from my experience with different channel configurations, I would first go with 5.1, then 7.1 utilizing heights or front wides, and finally 9.1 adding in surround backs. Rear surrounds contribute the least to the sound field. In my opinion, with multiple speaker arrangements to choose from going beyond your typical 5.1/7.1 configurations these days, they should be the last addition to your setup. If your receiver supports a front width configuration I would completely forget about rear surrounds and simply go with a wide, height, and surround configuration, placing the surrounds at 110°.

 

[3db]

Based on your room dimensions, most definately as you room is large and would benefit from extra sources of sound adding to the surround field. In my case, I would not get any benefit..

 

[herbu]

Money and practically (which shouldn't be a factor in a dedicated room)...

1. Oh to be 25 and single again.
2. So yepimonfire, how are you enjoying the single life?
3. How long have you worked for McIntosh?
4. Expect to be hearing from the Monster Cable folks soon.
etc...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

i have a newer construction 2 story home with a 5.1 home theater setup on first floor with 106" projection screen.

bowers and wilkins floorstanding 6.5" 3 way speakers
proficient 5.25 center in wall speaker
proficient 6.5 back surround in ceiling speakers
klipsch subwoofer
marantz sr7008

the surround experience feels subpar having just the two in ceiling rear speakers. little to no sound immersion.

i'm considering adding two side surround speakers in-wall to make full 7.1. there is no pre-wiring for those speakers and the walls have foam insulation. i also have a fire block. I would have to use a long flexibit drill bit to drill down to crawl space and fish the wires back up to the receiver.

room is about 19x19', no windows. 10 ft ceilings.

is this effort going to be worth the result? my wife is trying to talk me out of it.

Hells no, it's not worth all that trouble.

Just use bigger, more dynamic, and better surround speakers + better placement if your existing surround speakers & placement are underwhelming.

I have only 2 surround speakers in my theater room (22'W x 26'L x 14'H). And they are VERY IMMERSIVE and sound awesome.

 

[Verdinut]

Unless you are interested in watching action movies, which will often provide rear channel sound effects, up to now, there are so few Blu-rays that contain a 7.1 ch soundtrack.
If I were you, I would just wait and see what future will bring.

 

[yepimonfire]

1. Oh to be 25 and single again.
2. So yepimonfire, how are you enjoying the single life?
3. How long have you worked for McIntosh?
4. Expect to be hearing from the Monster Cable folks soon.
etc...

I tend to prefer Amazon basics . I'm actually married, but my wife is accommodating of my hobby because she can no longer go back to the TV speakers after being spoiled.

As far as wife approval factor goes, height speakers are unobtrusive. He already has a 9.1 receiver and in ceiling speakers, a second set of heights could be placed at the front at the wall junction for not much money or effort. An excellent speaker for this purpose and what I currently use for Dolby PLIIz is the Polk audio OWM 3 or 5. While it certainly is no match for the mains, it's not really necessary for it to be and I guarantee it can match the quality of an individual ceiling model. Most Atmos receivers support a height or ceiling configuration.

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[Cristian22]

Not having the space to go with surrounds and rears I went with 60 cm above seated ear level surrounds and front height in a 5.2.2 configuration.

Sounds very good and immersive and thinking in the future to go for 5.2.4 instead of 7.2.2.
So that’s my advice for you also, take some better surrounds and go for height.

 

[yepimonfire]

Not having the space to go with surrounds and rears I went with 60 cm above seated ear level surrounds and front height in a 5.2.2 configuration.

Sounds very good and immersive and thinking in the future to go for 5.2.4 instead of 7.2.2.
So that’s my advice for you also, take some better surrounds and go for height.

I really think Heights are the way to go. It doesn't matter if only some movies have 7.1, pliix will add rears to any input. Humans aren't good at localizing sound behind them, more to the sides, front, and above. I've tried both rears and height and its a no brainer.

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