Using Vintage Audio Sytems in the Modern AV World

[TLS Guy]

We quite often gets posts concerning using/adapting good older vintage gear in this modern AV world of HDMI interconnection.

These posts often generate a lot of frustration. In the end the advice quite often ends up being: - Get an AV receiver.

So why would someone like to do this?

They already have a good older system usually with a turntable and a large LP collection and sometimes tape as well. They like their gear and are loath to part with it, but would really like a picture.

They have inherited a system they are attached to and would like to use it.

They are fascinated by older gear and curious about it and have been tempted to purchase gear on line, but have either been hesitant or purchased it but become totally unsure of its usefulness in the modern world except as an audio only system, which can also be fine.

Nostalgic reasons, especially wanting to play LPs on the best equipment of the era.

These are all good reasons. The problem is how to implement it in a functional and handy fashion, especially in a way other family members can use.

I have a a system in my lower level built round equipment from the 70s and 80s largely. Now the system is fully fleshed out, my wife has no trouble using it.

The heart of the system is a Quad 34 preamp.

It is mated with a Quad FM 4 tuner. This is absolutely one of the best FM tuners ever made. Mine is connected to a roof Yagi-Uda array.

The power amps are a Quad 909 for the left and right speakers and a Quad 405-2 for the subs.

The peripherals in addition to the FM4 are a Thorens TD 125 MK II. I have fitted an SME series III arm to mine. The cartridge is a Shure V15 xMR. And of course a vintage Cecil E Watts Dust Bug is in use.

So apart from the speakers that is it for the analog gear.

The digital equipment consists of an HDMI auto switcher. There are three rear HDMI inputs and one front. The output goes to a Sony Bravia LCD TV. It has analog audio out which is fed to the tape input of the Quad 34. If the TV only has a digital out, which is usual these days, then you will need a good DAC.

The Direct TV Genie slave box is connected to HDMI 1 of the switcher.

A Panasonic BD player is connected to HDMI input 2 of the switcher, and its analog outs go to the CD input of the Quad 34.

A Chromecast device is connected to HDMI 3 of the switcher. Now this is where you have to get a little creative. A Chromecast device has no off switch. With an auto HDMI switcher all devices must be able to be turned off. The switcher will switch to the lone on device. Now I have a couple of Ethernet cables down to that location. One goes to the BD player and the other to this little device.

It is an Ethernet cable adapter for Chromecast and they cost $15.

Now this device does not switch off either. The plugs coming from the UPS giving protection are at the top of the cabinet.

So I used this remote radio controlled switch. You can see the fob hanging in above picture.

So we have FM tuner, turntable, BD player, Direct TV, Chromecast and an integrated TV without the use of a receiver. This coupled with a level of performance a receiver could not match.

The power amps are turned on from a relay system I constructed employing the switched AC out on the Quad 34.

So now onto the speakers and bass management.

These are the main speakers.

The bass unit is the vintage KEF B139.

The mid range unit are vintage Dynaudio D76 AF units.

The tweeters are HiVi planar isodynamic tweeters.

Crossover at 400 Hz and 4 KHz.

The cabinets are ported and slightly over damped. They roll off gently from 53 Hz to 35 Hz and then 24 db per octave.

So two subs are used. These are isobarik coupled cavity subs using two older 12" Eminence drivers in each cabinet. I built them in 1984. A vintage Crown VFX-2 is used to carefully splice the subs to the mains, so response is extended flat to the mid 20s. This takes very little power.

Two Y- connectors are in the output of the Quad 34. These go to the inputs of the Crown crossover. The outputs of the Crown are commoned, so both channels of the Quad 405-2 receiver a mono signal.

So with a little imagination it is possible to build a two channel AV system round vintage equipment.

If an older receiver is to be used and bass management is desired, then a receiver with jumpers between the preamp and power amp sections should be selected. That makes incorporating a sub straightforward.

I really like this rig and it excels in LP reproduction. It really comes into its own in the long cold Minnesota winters, when I spin vinyl and listen by the fire.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

Nice system and explanation. I have bought three different digital to analogue converters so that I can connect any source into any of our amps / receivers. Peace and goodwill.

 

[highfigh]

SIB-KIS at its finest.

Been a long time since I saw anything about a Crown crossover like that- I had one in the '80s.

 

[TLS Guy]

SIB-KIS at its finest.

Been a long time since I saw anything about a Crown crossover like that- I had one in the '80s.

I confess I had to research that a little.

See It Big - Keep It Simple.

I guess that fits for a general description.

 

[Bucknekked]

We quite often gets posts concerning using/adapting good older vintage gear in this modern AV world of HDMI interconnection.

These posts often generate a lot of frustration. In the end the advice quite often ends up being: - Get an AV receiver.

So why would someone like to do this?

They already have a good older system usually with a turntable and a large LP collection and sometimes tape as well. They like their gear and are loath to part with it, but would really like a picture.

They have inherited a system they are attached to and would like to use it.

They are fascinated by older gear and curious about it and have been tempted to purchase gear on line, but have either been hesitant or purchased it but become totally unsure of its usefulness in the modern world except as an audio only system, which can also be fine.

Nostalgic reasons, especially wanting to play LPs on the best equipment of the era.

These are all good reasons. The problem is how to implement it in a functional and handy fashion, especially in a way other family members can use.

I have a a system in my lower level built round equipment from the 70s and 80s largely. Now the system is fully fleshed out, my wife has no trouble using it.

The heart of the system is a Quad 34 preamp.

It is mated with a Quad FM 4 tuner. This is absolutely one of the best FM tuners ever made. Mine is connected to a roof Yagi-Uda array.

The power amps are a Quad 909 for the left and right speakers and a Quad 405-2 for the subs.

The peripherals in addition to the FM4 are a Thorens TD 125 MK II. I have fitted an SME series III arm to mine. The cartridge is a Shure V15 xMR. And of course a vintage Cecil E Watts Dust Bug is in use.

So apart from the speakers that is it for the analog gear.

The digital equipment consists of an HDMI auto switcher. There are three rear HDMI inputs and one front. The output goes to a Sony Bravia LCD TV. It has analog audio out which is fed to the tape input of the Quad 34. If the TV only has a digital out, which is usual these days, then you will need a good DAC.

The Direct TV Genie slave box is connected to HDMI 1 of the switcher.

A Panasonic BD player is connected to HDMI input 2 of the switcher, and its analog outs go to the CD input of the Quad 34.

A Chromecast device is connected to HDMI 3 of the switcher. Now this is where you have to get a little creative. A Chromecast device has no off switch. With an auto HDMI switcher all devices must be able to be turned off. The switcher will switch to the lone on device. Now I have a couple of Ethernet cables down to that location. One goes to the BD player and the other to this little device.

It is an Ethernet cable adapter for Chromecast and they cost $15.

Now this device does not switch off either. The plugs coming from the UPS giving protection are at the top of the cabinet.

So I used this remote radio controlled switch. You can see the fob hanging in above picture.

So we have FM tuner, turntable, BD player, Direct TV, Chromecast and an integrated TV without the use of a receiver. This coupled with a level of performance a receiver could not match.

The power amps are turned on from a relay system I constructed employing the switched AC out on the Quad 34.

So now onto the speakers and bass management.

These are the main speakers.

The bass unit is the vintage KEF B139.

The mid range unit are vintage Dynaudio D76 AF units.

The tweeters are HiVi planar isodynamic tweeters.

Crossover at 400 Hz and 4 KHz.

The cabinets are ported and slightly over damped. They roll off gently from 53 Hz to 35 Hz and then 24 db per octave.

So two subs are used. These are isobarik coupled cavity subs using two older 12" Eminence drivers in each cabinet. I built them in 1984. A vintage Crown VFX-2 is used to carefully splice the subs to the mains, so response is extended flat to the mid 20s. This takes very little power.

Two Y- connectors are in the output of the Quad 34. These go to the inputs of the Crown crossover. The outputs of the Crown are commoned, so both channels of the Quad 405-2 receiver a mono signal.

So with a little imagination it is possible to build a two channel AV system round vintage equipment.

If an older receiver is to be used and bass management is desired, then a receiver with jumpers between the preamp and power amp sections should be selected. That makes incorporating a sub straightforward.

I really like this rig and it excels in LP reproduction. It really comes into its own in the long cold Minnesota winters, when I spin vinyl and listen by the fire.

I dont have much in common with your equipment but I do use those radio controlled AC switches. Mine are Bluetooth devices from GE. I have an app, AVION, I control them with. I can schedule them for regular recurring behaviors or simply use the app like an on/off switch. Creative thinking on your part for finding a way to provide an on/off switch to devices that dont have one.

As far as the rest of your system goes, I can only dream of stuff that well matched and capable. Truly an achievement.

 

[TLS Guy]

I dont have much in common with your equipment but I do use those radio controlled AC switches. Mine are Bluetooth devices from GE. I have an app, AVION, I control them with. I can schedule them for regular recurring behaviors or simply use the app like an on/off switch. Creative thinking on your part for finding a way to provide an on/off switch to devices that dont have one.

As far as the rest of your system goes, I can only dream of stuff that well matched and capable. Truly an achievement.

Thank you for that. I will admit to designing gear off the main stream.

 

[MrBoat]

We quite often gets posts concerning using/adapting good older vintage gear in this modern AV world of HDMI interconnection.

These posts often generate a lot of frustration. In the end the advice quite often ends up being: - Get an AV receiver.

Most impressive and thank you for the tour.

You would be involved in a discussion for a very long time trying to explain to the general user how to implement such a system on a forum with vintage gear. Most would likely lead you well into it and then disappear, never to be heard from again.

Thank god we are not neighbors. I'd be so far down the audio rabbit hole and flat broke.

 

[Bucknekked]

Most impressive and thank you for the tour.

You would be involved in a discussion for a very long time trying to explain to the general user how to implement such a system on a forum with vintage gear. Most would likely lead you well into it and then disappear, never to be heard from again.

Thank god we are not neighbors. I'd be so far down the audio rabbit hole and flat broke.

MrBoat:
TLS Guy lives on a lake : you could build him a boat and be all square in no time ! Think of the possibilities

 

[MrBoat]

MrBoat:
TLS Guy lives on a lake : you could build him a boat and be all square in no time ! Think of the possibilities

He probably doesn't need a boat. He has probably found a frequency the fish love and has them all hanging out at his dock. Probably has a specialized transducer hanging in the water.

 

[highfigh]

I confess I had to research that a little.

See It Big - Keep It Simple.

I guess that fits for a general description.

Older equipment is generally easy enough to connect and set up, but when I see some of the disasters of configuration in the systems people cobble together, it amazes me that it works at all. You kept it simple by adding the HDMI switch to the analog system, not making it the centerpiece.

When I see the rat's nests in the systems I work on, one of the first things I insist on is time to organize and label the cables- I have had people act like they were about to faint when they looked behind the cabinet.

I studied architecture at an engineering school, so they wrote 'SIB-KISS' on the chalkboard- "See It Big, Keep It Simple, Stupid'. The first time we saw this was when the test question called on us to analyze the forces acting on all members of a truss that was attached to a wall, with a 5,000lb weigh hanging at the end. He wrote it after hearing the reactions from some people in the class. Like the cabling, they saw it as more difficult than it was.

 

[TLS Guy]

He probably doesn't need a boat. He has probably found a frequency the fish love and has them all hanging out at his dock. Probably has a specialized transducer hanging in the water.

You know the funny thing is I don't fish. It never has been my thing. I do have boats. This is my favorite picture of Lake Benedict. One of my nephews came out a few years ago with this new bride. He took this sunrise picture in early August at our "marina", because he was jet lagged.

Right opposite is the Benedict River which leads into Leach lake, the third largest Lake entirely in Minnesota. The two larger lakes being Red Lake and Mille Lacs. Anyhow we can boat to destinations up to 40 miles away. Its big water out there.

So we can boat to destinations like Earl's Bar at Federal Dam on the Leech River.

The Federal Dam on the Leech River. The first Dam was built there in 1863.

The great Earl Machart himself holding forth outside his bar. There is a long running sitcom in that guy for sure.

And I just can't resist putting this picture up of a Mallet at Two Harbors on Lake Superior.

 

[Swerd]

@TLS Guy
I've been away for the better part of a week, and came back to see this excellent post about how to adapt older gear (that predates the AV era) so that it can be used in the modern AV world of HDMI interconnection. Thanks TLS Guy. This answers those frequent questions we see from many readers with older.

I especially liked the part describing the radio controlled remote switcher, and a link for it.

For the sake of completeness, would you please also include links for these:

• HDMI Auto switcher
• External DAC

For an external DAC, I think a brief discussion of what performance and price level is sufficient for good performance in a home audio system, as opposed to a modern TV with small speakers such as a sound bar. I've only heard the results of DACs built into either CD, DVD, or BR players, or those built into 3 different AVRs. And frankly, I've been unable to detect any difference at all, much less a significant difference worth paying money for.

 

[Pogre]

I really like this post. You have such a nice system and place. Thanks for sharing.

I'm gonna vote sticky. This is a fun read and I think it's a pretty good FAQ too.

 

[TLS Guy]

@TLS Guy
I've been away for the better part of a week, and came back to see this excellent post about how to adapt older gear (that predates the AV era) so that it can be used in the modern AV world of HDMI interconnection. Thanks TLS Guy. This answers those frequent questions we see from many readers with older.

I especially liked the part describing the radio controlled remote switcher, and a link for it.

For the sake of completeness, would you please also include links for these:

• HDMI Auto switcher
• External DAC

For an external DAC, I think a brief discussion of what performance and price level is sufficient for good performance in a home audio system, as opposed to a modern TV with small speakers such as a sound bar. I've only heard the results of DACs built into either CD, DVD, or BR players, or those built into 3 different AVRs. And frankly, I've been unable to detect any difference at all, much less a significant difference worth paying money for.

I did not link that switcher, because that one is NLA, and there are lots on the market, including from Monoprice.

That one happens to be a TRULINK that I won for being top twerp at a Halloween Party at an Audioholics SOTA event in Orlando Florida.

What you need is a switch that has priority switching for the inputs you need. Something like this.

As far as the DAC is concerned, I'm using the one in the TV as the TV has analog outs. There are lots of DACs. If you get a cheap one they can make a real racket with no input. Remember to set the TV to output 2 channel PCM or or you will get will be noise. Here is one that should do the trick and it has a volume control for balancing input levels.