Modernizing home theater setup from the 1970's

[BMXTRIX]

Ignoring the outdoor/garage stuff, I would want to know a bit more about where the speakers are placed in the family room and address that independently from the rest of the system.

A surround receiver is really designed for one room, not for distributed audio, but if your new receiver supports multiple zones, then it may be fine to use for the other speaker locations.

Ideally, you would be looking for a speaker which supports frequencies from 20hz to 20Khz. That's not realistic, unfortunately, so a 8" 2-way or 3-way design is far more common, which is why you got the link for the 8" speaker above.

Now, when you have the picture of the family room, for some reason there are two speaker holes that appear to be side by side. I'm just not sure if that's correct and mirrored on both sides or what is going on. It almost looks like it may be a stereo setup, with a 12" woofer and then some other speaker for the other hole. So, perhaps a 12" woofer, and a 8" 2-way would work in those locations. Weird, but it may work and be acceptable at a budget price. Crossovers would be... tough.

I would recommend taking a look at 2-way and 3-way speakers. Most raw drivers are just a single speaker that is designed to go into a speaker box, and used with other speakers, so finding a single coaxial speaker which isn't just a pre-fab in-ceiling model is going to limit your options. Especially today, when 6.5" speakers are most common, and there are just a lot less 8" speakers, but they are common. 12" size is just unheard of.

Do not dispair my friend!

Parts Express is a good place to look for speaker building components. And that's really what you are looking at and talking about. They have speaker components, you can break down into a number of different sizes. From small speakers up to 12" diameter, full-range.

So, not really cheap is going to be an issue, because what you want to do is not really normal:
https://www.parts-express.com/celestion-ftx1225-12-coaxial-full-range-professional-driver--294-2098

At 10" and 12" they only have 4 options each, and only one of which (linked above) was a true full range. The jump at 8" is significant, where you have 31 choices.

Which then makes me wonder if you want to rework things a bit, as part of the project, to just used pre-fab in-ceiling 8" speakers. There is a long line of available 8" speakers that are both 2-way or 3-way in design.

I certainly would spend a bit more on things in the family room than outside or in the garage.

As for outside and in the garage, I'm not fan of Pyle (cheap, cheap, cheap), but they will certainly work just fine. If you are happy with the audio, then who is anyone to tell you otherwise.

The problem now is that you bought a one-room surround receiver and you have 3-rooms. I really wish you has asked before that purchase, because I think that's the single biggest limiting component in your system. It can't run volume separately to the outdoor speakers. You have a total of 7-channels of amplification, designed for surround sound, but you have a total of 8 speakers, running all in stereo. So, you can see that it is a problem. Are you within a return window? I'm serious about that, because at the moment, you really can't run the other zones separately, in any way, from the family room.
At the very least, you are looking for a pair of amp channels which can drive zone 2/3 separately, with fixed or independent volume control.

You could pick up a external amplifier for the other speakers, and run a speaker selector/volume control to run them. That would be under $200 and may be easier than returning things and may provide more stable power to the other speakers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONANCE-SONAMP-260-MKII-2-CHANNEL-POWER-AMPLIFIER-EXCELLENT-/371926176408?hash=item5698871298:g:HnUAAOSwVm5Y-R74
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NILES-SVL-2-SPEAKER-SELECTION-VOLUME-CONTROL-SYSTEM-/311834322395?hash=item489ac625db:g:IYkAAOSwB-1Yr2dH

This will only support analog audio (red/white audio RCA jacks type) for your outdoor speakers. Most CD players support this, and the headphone jack on your computer can be used to push out analog audio.

Like this: https://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Plated-Auxiliary-Splitter/dp/B01LW2R2P1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493052725&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca&psc=1

You aren't way off, but there's a few things to consider. The 40+ year old custom in-ceiling speakers are certainly an issue because they go against all current designs and will definitely be a project to address properly.

 

[Pogre]

Ignoring the outdoor/garage stuff, I would want to know a bit more about where the speakers are placed in the family room and address that independently from the rest of the system.

A surround receiver is really designed for one room, not for distributed audio, but if your new receiver supports multiple zones, then it may be fine to use for the other speaker locations.

Ideally, you would be looking for a speaker which supports frequencies from 20hz to 20Khz. That's not realistic, unfortunately, so a 8" 2-way or 3-way design is far more common, which is why you got the link for the 8" speaker above.

Now, when you have the picture of the family room, for some reason there are two speaker holes that appear to be side by side. I'm just not sure if that's correct and mirrored on both sides or what is going on. It almost looks like it may be a stereo setup, with a 12" woofer and then some other speaker for the other hole. So, perhaps a 12" woofer, and a 8" 2-way would work in those locations. Weird, but it may work and be acceptable at a budget price. Crossovers would be... tough.

I would recommend taking a look at 2-way and 3-way speakers. Most raw drivers are just a single speaker that is designed to go into a speaker box, and used with other speakers, so finding a single coaxial speaker which isn't just a pre-fab in-ceiling model is going to limit your options. Especially today, when 6.5" speakers are most common, and there are just a lot less 8" speakers, but they are common. 12" size is just unheard of.

Do not dispair my friend!

Parts Express is a good place to look for speaker building components. And that's really what you are looking at and talking about. They have speaker components, you can break down into a number of different sizes. From small speakers up to 12" diameter, full-range.

So, not really cheap is going to be an issue, because what you want to do is not really normal:
https://www.parts-express.com/celestion-ftx1225-12-coaxial-full-range-professional-driver--294-2098

At 10" and 12" they only have 4 options each, and only one of which (linked above) was a true full range. The jump at 8" is significant, where you have 31 choices.

Which then makes me wonder if you want to rework things a bit, as part of the project, to just used pre-fab in-ceiling 8" speakers. There is a long line of available 8" speakers that are both 2-way or 3-way in design.

I certainly would spend a bit more on things in the family room than outside or in the garage.

As for outside and in the garage, I'm not fan of Pyle (cheap, cheap, cheap), but they will certainly work just fine. If you are happy with the audio, then who is anyone to tell you otherwise.

The problem now is that you bought a one-room surround receiver and you have 3-rooms. I really wish you has asked before that purchase, because I think that's the single biggest limiting component in your system. It can't run volume separately to the outdoor speakers. You have a total of 7-channels of amplification, designed for surround sound, but you have a total of 8 speakers, running all in stereo. So, you can see that it is a problem. Are you within a return window? I'm serious about that, because at the moment, you really can't run the other zones separately, in any way, from the family room.
At the very least, you are looking for a pair of amp channels which can drive zone 2/3 separately, with fixed or independent volume control.

You could pick up a external amplifier for the other speakers, and run a speaker selector/volume control to run them. That would be under $200 and may be easier than returning things and may provide more stable power to the other speakers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONANCE-SONAMP-260-MKII-2-CHANNEL-POWER-AMPLIFIER-EXCELLENT-/371926176408?hash=item5698871298:g:HnUAAOSwVm5Y-R74
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NILES-SVL-2-SPEAKER-SELECTION-VOLUME-CONTROL-SYSTEM-/311834322395?hash=item489ac625db:g:IYkAAOSwB-1Yr2dH

This will only support analog audio (red/white audio RCA jacks type) for your outdoor speakers. Most CD players support this, and the headphone jack on your computer can be used to push out analog audio.

Like this: https://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Plated-Auxiliary-Splitter/dp/B01LW2R2P1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493052725&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca&psc=1

You aren't way off, but there's a few things to consider. The 40+ year old custom in-ceiling speakers are certainly an issue because they go against all current designs and will definitely be a project to address properly.

Don't know if you saw this angle. It does look like they're mirrored on both sides.

I suspect the second hole is for the light that's beside the speaker in the first pic.

 

[jaxwithanx]

Thanks everyone for the well thought out replies. Let me again clarify that the only money I have actually spent on this project is $25. I still feel OK about getting 4 NIB speakers for that which seem to have reasonable reviews from the average user (which I would consider myself). I already had the receiver laying around. I have no problem with hearing suggestions on a better way to isolate things such as the outdoor speakers from the interior. I assumed I could have isolated whether music was playing in the garage, patio or living room by just choosing speaker groups wired into the receiver but that does not seem to be the case. No worries, I just didn't know. What's a better way that is of reasonable cost?

If not already clear, 'filling the room with reasonable clear sound' is essentially all I'm really looking for. I don't care about surround setups or being able to reproduce music with extreme sonic accuracy or range. I literally watch sports and listen to Spotify occasionally. I'm the kind of guy who can be in a club or a sports bar and never think twice about whether or not what I'm hearing is of supreme accuracy. Let's put it this way, I was given a set of "blown" Infinity RS525's in college because people knew I liked to screw around with things to learn and I re-foamed with simple replacements and am still using them as my computer/quasi-media room speakers 10 years later. They sound absolutely fine for everything I do. It's just in this case I've basically got a large living room with four 12" speaker boxes built into the corners of the room in the ceiling and I'd love to use them instead of plopping those same RS-525's on the floor under a corner mounted television. I figured there would be a way to do this reasonably so here I am.

Yes, those empty holes next to the speaker boxes are recessed eyeball cans I had out while I was spraying gloss white to get rid of the yellowing that looked so poor against the white ceiling. Look much better now paired with some 4000k 15W LED's. Even better at the end of the month when all the walls are freshly painted matte white!

 

[jaxwithanx]

You have a total of 7-channels of amplification, designed for surround sound, but you have a total of 8 speakers, running all in stereo. So, you can see that it is a problem. Are you within a return window? I'm serious about that, because at the moment, you really can't run the other zones separately, in any way, from the family room.
At the very least, you are looking for a pair of amp channels which can drive zone 2/3 separately, with fixed or independent volume control.

You could pick up a external amplifier for the other speakers, and run a speaker selector/volume control to run them. That would be under $200 and may be easier than returning things and may provide more stable power to the other speakers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONANCE-SONAMP-260-MKII-2-CHANNEL-POWER-AMPLIFIER-EXCELLENT-/371926176408?hash=item5698871298:g:HnUAAOSwVm5Y-R74
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NILES-SVL-2-SPEAKER-SELECTION-VOLUME-CONTROL-SYSTEM-/311834322395?hash=item489ac625db:g:IYkAAOSwB-1Yr2dH

This will only support analog audio (red/white audio RCA jacks type) for your outdoor speakers. Most CD players support this, and the headphone jack on your computer can be used to push out analog audio.

Like this: https://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Plated-Auxiliary-Splitter/dp/B01LW2R2P1/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1493052725&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=3.5mm+to+rca&psc=1

You aren't way off, but there's a few things to consider. The 40+ year old custom in-ceiling speakers are certainly an issue because they go against all current designs and will definitely be a project to address properly.

This is exactly the stuff I need and thank you for taking my efforts seriously. I had thought about that basic "I got 8 speaker and 7 channels" issue and sort of addressed it in the original post without stating explicitly. But beyond that you have made me realize it's a very realistic possibility I would not want to always be listening to whatever is in the living room in the garage and vice versa. I do however don't think it would be an issue to have my courtyard and garage speakers paired in that way and probably would prefer it. Maybe it would be nice to have the ability to have either one turned off while the other is on but completely separate volume control wouldn't be a requirement.

Perhaps at this point it's best to just disregard what I have as far as receivers go and work from that. I can just use that receiver to power my RS625's in the computer room.

To be honest, I will end up using those Pyle's outside because....it's outside and I'm just as likely to be listening to AM sports as I am anything else out there. But in regards to a proper receiver for those and a separate receiver/speaker combo for the living room, which is what I think is being suggested....come with it. Just try to remember I'm seeking to maximize value and utilize those 12" speaker boxes (I don't want to make additional holes in my ceiling and drywall patching to fit a smaller diameter recessed option isn't an option currently). So I guess that leaves me with these - https://www.parts-express.com/celestion-k12h-200tc-12-200-watt-full-range-professional-woofer-driver-8-ohm--294-2082 and whatever else in a setup is deemed most appropriate and remains fairly simple.

Or modifying those boxes to fit 8" is do-able although I have zero idea on how to do that appropriately but am willing to learn if that provides me vastly better options for speaker choices to make this in-ceiling thing work.

 

[jaxwithanx]

OK after reading through a couple more times, I think I've got a handle on what everyone has suggested.

1. It would be better to take those ceiling boxes setup for 12" speakers and appropriately fit 8" speakers because there is just a much better range to choose from (potentially cheaper to boot) if I'm not willing to just patch the ceiling and start over (which, at this point in time, I'm not).

2. My current receiver isn't ideal or even realistically capable of performing the functions I would need to control outside from inside speakers and it would be better to dedicate a separate amplifier and selector for those outside ones (outside courtyard and garage). Those two linked by BMXTRIX do the trick there?

3. Those Pyles are POS and it's hard to ignore that for any self-respecting audio hobbyist/professional. While I want to be upfront and admit I'll more than likely at least try them out since I can't imagine anything else I'd put them in, I'd love to hear about a good value-oriented option to look into possibly.


So with these 3 factors acknowledged, my question is this. Would running my current receiver in a 5.1 style setup, installing nicer 8" 2 or 3-way speaker while designating my 4 ceiling speakers as FR,FL,RR,RL and figuring out a way to get a decent sub within (there is the media closet and a cabinet in a corner that might suffice for this), be a good option? Or a much superior option to the previous thought of running four 12" (https://www.parts-express.com/celestion-k12h-200tc-12-200-watt-full-range-professional-woofer-driver-8-ohm--294-2082). I realize I am missing that 5th/center speaker in this equation.

And then purchasing the previously mentioned 2-channel amp and speaker selector for controlling outside items.

It's almost 1am here and I appologize for me tone. these 2 way pyle speakers could be used for garage etc.. I won't recommend using them for HT

Honestly, don't even sweat it man. It was late her too and I was being a little sensitive. I just wanted everyone to know the only thing I've thrown any money at with this in mind was $25 for those Pyles. The rest was either there or speculative.

 

[XEagleDriver]

A) . . . a closet that powered four 12" speakers mounted in boxes in the ceiling and 4 small outdoor speakers (2 in the courtyard and 2 in the garage).
B) . . . now I'm trying to build it back on a budget. I'm not, in any way, an audiophile and never really imagined I would care to build or own a "home theater" but it seems like a fun project that could have some cool results.
C) . . . I just watch sports on TV and listen to music throughout the day at reasonable levels.

D) To start, this is the receiver I will be working with - https://www.amazon.com/Sony-STRDH750-7-2-Channel-Receiver/dp/B00J356C0K

E) I also scored 4 of this earlier this year for $25 and their just sitting in their boxes, I plan to use them on the patio and garage - https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Round-Ceiling-Speakers-System/dp/B00GEE9F84

F) That leaves me looking for some reasonably "full-range" 12" speakers. I came across these and think they might work reasonable well - https://www.amazon.com/Eminence-American-Standard-Replacement-Speaker/dp/B0002VRP00

G) . . . How would I go about intelligently wiring up these 8 total speakers (four 12" in the living room ceiling and four 6.5" in outdoor areas) to the receiver in a way that makes sense?

Jax,
First off welcome to the forum you have landed on a great place to vet your ideas.
I have a bit of a different read on your project, since I have a very similar situation/setup in my home (Family Room in my signature).
My ideas/suggestions are below (I added paragraph letters to your post quote above to be able to reference which parts of your post I am addressing)--hope this info helps.

A) I agree, replace the original 12" speakers in the main room. However, do NOT replace with some other/newer 12" speakers.
- Instead replace with a 2-way (tweeter and woofer) speaker, either a round in-ceiling speaker (link is to ~$100/pair) or a rectangular in-wall speaker (link is to ~$90/pair).
- In either case, I recommend buying a speaker with an 8" woofer for a bit more capability on the low end.

B) From looking at the pictures you supplied (thanks BTW) the wood piece inside the fabric cover (with the 12" cut out and the additional small hole on the bottom) should be easily replaced (use MDF) and cut it out for the budget in-ceiling or in-wall speaker you select.
- The speakers come with a template, it is easy to do.

C) Although you used the words "Home Theater" in your post, your goal is not to build a HT. I agree with the other posters your main room is not well suited to a HT (especially on a budget).
- But, you should be able to get decent sound for TV sports and background music on a reasonable budget.

D) The Sony receiver you have will work fine. You will leverage Sony's Multi Stereo mode which outputs 2-channel left/right signals to all the Sony's speakers outputs; in your case to power eight speakers (four in the main room, 2 in garage, and 2 on porch).
- How to do this is below in para. G).

E) The $25 small speakers can work for now (they are paid for and will not hurt the budget) in the garage and courtyard.
- Like the others said replacing with a better product sometime in the future is advisable.

F) Do not get the "full-range 12" speakers" you listed.
- See recommendation in response paragraph B) above.

G) Connect to Sony receiver as follows:
- Main room two front speakers to the Sony's Front L/R speaker outputs;
- Main room two rear speakers to the Sony's Surround L/R speaker outputs;
- Buy an inexpensive Speaker Selector Switch with impedance protection like this 4-channel one (~$16) or this 2-channel one with volume control (~$40).
WARNING: Ensure impedance protection is ON to avoid damaging your Sony receiver!!
- Connect the Sony Surround Back L/R speaker outputs to the Speaker Selector Switch L/R inputs and then connect the garage speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #1 and the Courtyard speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #2.

To be clear this is NOT a SURROUND SOUND system at all, it is an all-channel stereo system and will only work properly in Sony's Multi Stereo mode.

What it will do is provide you stereo sound to the main room (front and rear), and when selected the garage and/or courtyard areas. For a few hundred bucks, not a bad deal at all IMHO.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[jaxwithanx]

Jax,
First off welcome to the forum you have landed on a great place to vet your ideas.
I have a bit of a different read on your project, since I have a very similar situation/setup in my home (Family Room in my signature).
My ideas/suggestions are below (I added paragraph letters to your post quote above to be able to reference which parts of your post I am addressing)--hope this info helps.

A) I agree, replace the original 12" speakers in the main room. However, do NOT replace with some other/newer 12" speakers.
- Instead replace with a 2-way (tweeter and woofer) speaker, either a round in-ceiling speaker (link is to ~$100/pair) or a rectangular in-wall speaker (link is to ~$90/pair).
- In either case, I recommend buying a speaker with an 8" woofer for a bit more capability on the low end.

B) From looking at the pictures you supplied (thanks BTW) the wood piece inside the fabric cover (with the 12" cut out and the additional small hole on the bottom) should be easily replaced (use MDF) and cut it out for the budget in-ceiling or in-wall speaker you select.
- The speakers come with a template, it is easy to do.

C) Although you used the words "Home Theater" in your post, your goal is not to build a HT. I agree with the other posters your main room is not well suited to a HT (especially on a budget).
- But, you should be able to get decent sound for TV sports and background music on a reasonable budget.

D) The Sony receiver you have will work fine. You will leverage Sony's Multi Stereo mode which outputs 2-channel left/right signals to all the Sony's speakers outputs; in your case to power eight speakers (four in the main room, 2 in garage, and 2 on porch).
- How to do this is below in para. G).

E) The $25 small speakers can work for now (they are paid for and will not hurt the budget) in the garage and courtyard.
- Like the others said replacing with a better product sometime in the future is advisable.

F) Do not get the "full-range 12" speakers" you listed.
- See recommendation in response paragraph B) above.

G) Connect to Sony receiver as follows:
- Main room two front speakers to the Sony's Front L/R speaker outputs;
- Main room two rear speakers to the Sony's Surround L/R speaker outputs;
- Buy an inexpensive Speaker Selector Switch with impedance protection like this 4-channel one (~$16) or this 2-channel one with volume control (~$40).
WARNING: Ensure impedance protection is ON to avoid damaging your Sony receiver!!
- Connect the Sony Surround Back L/R speaker outputs to the Speaker Selector Switch L/R inputs and then connect the garage speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #1 and the Courtyard speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #2.

To be clear this is NOT a SURROUND SOUND system at all, it is an all-channel stereo system and will only work properly in Sony's Multi Stereo mode.

What it will do is provide you stereo sound to the main room (front and rear), and when selected the garage and/or courtyard areas. For a few hundred bucks, not a bad deal at all IMHO.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

You hit the nail on the head all the way around and thanks for the additional time you spent advising on how to wire up the receiver. I'm a big Monoprice guy myself too. So I'm assuming 3-way speakers aren't really to be bothered with due to the relative simplicity of the overall components involved, including the patched up boxes. Essentially, I wouldn't really reap the benefits of the 3-way regardless.

Also, with this setup, all my speakers would be outputting both L/R channels correct?

Lastly, it seems like those in-wall speakers might be an easier install into my original boxes (would love some good advice on that though), plus they are in stock as opposed to the round ceiling set. Anyone have any objections to this and/or those Monoprice speakers or similarly priced alternatives?

 

[BMXTRIX]

- Connect the Sony Surround Back L/R speaker outputs to the Speaker Selector Switch L/R inputs and then connect the garage speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #1 and the Courtyard speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #2.

The reason I did not suggest this, is that you will not have individual volume control for those two zones. They will be 'ON' at the same volume as the family room, or off. If you want to listen in the garage, or outside, without the family room on, you can't do it. If you want to listen to music outside, and the family room as cable TV, you can't do it.

That's not very clear in this post that you lose what I would consider core functionality for those other two zones. The ability to run discrete volume to them and to run a different source to them as you desire. This is really made easier with a two-zone A/V receiver (or three zones), but a separate amplifier and volume control/speaker selector as linked in my prior post gives you much more flexibility in listening to your system, without a to of cash outlay.

 

[jaxwithanx]

The reason I did not suggest this, is that you will not have individual volume control for those two zones. They will be 'ON' at the same volume as the family room, or off. If you want to listen in the garage, or outside, without the family room on, you can't do it. If you want to listen to music outside, and the family room as cable TV, you can't do it.

That's not very clear in this post that you lose what I would consider core functionality for those other two zones. The ability to run discrete volume to them and to run a different source to them as you desire. This is really made easier with a two-zone A/V receiver (or three zones), but a separate amplifier and volume control/speaker selector as linked in my prior post gives you much more flexibility in listening to your system, without a to of cash outlay.

With this - https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8231

I wouldn't be able to just switch the receiver from the speaker group tied to my living room if I didn't want it on there and control the outside speakers with the above item?

Regardless, I just realized that no matter what, my receiver can only send out one source at a time (correct?) so if I wanted to listen to two difference inputs simultaneously (one for the living room and one for the outside speakers) I would need a separate amplifier as you mentioned. Right?

 

[BMXTRIX]

With this - https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8231

I wouldn't be able to just switch the receiver from the speaker group tied to my living room if I didn't want it on there and control the outside speakers with the above item?

Regardless, I just realized that no matter what, my receiver can only send out one source at a time (correct?) so if I wanted to listen to two difference inputs simultaneously (one for the living room and one for the outside speakers) I would need a separate amplifier as you mentioned. Right?

You are getting the idea for the second part there, but the first part is still confusing you a bit, so I'll break it down a bit more.

Your receiver will change the volume of all connected speakers together. That means that if you use a speaker selector with volume control, like you linked, you would be putting one volume control after the other. Your receiver also has no ability to turn off the speakers in the family room. So, while those large speakers may fill the space very well at 40% volume, it may be very quiet outside, or it may be cranking in the garage. So, you end up stuck. You can't get enough volume in one place, you CAN turn down the volume with the volume control in the other place, but you can't turn off the family room at all, and yes, they will all be playing the same thing.

If you look at a two-zone (or three zone) receiver, you will see that it has multiple outputs that support different zones of audio, just like you have. You have three areas, and ideally, they would all be separate. Heck, because you are doing stereo, I would go a completely different route typically, but it would get pricey and complex for a average user. I would stick with the receiver you have, and get something like that Monoprice control which is similar to what I linked to, and a dedicated amplifier, like what I linked to. The amplifier will run your outdoor and garage speakers at FULL VOLUME, then you use the volume control to dial things back (attenuate the signal). So, you can set the garage, outdoor, and family room to separate volumes without them running into each other.

The garage and outdoor areas would play the same thing.

The family room would be completely separate.

Is there a rub to this? Of course! The outdoor area and garage need to be fed with an analog audio source. Red/White RCA jacks. That can be a computer, or a MP3 player of some sort, but it won't handle audio from HDMI or similar. It also really will need some additional thought put into it if you want to be able to switch between multiple audio sources. Not impossible, just a bit more effort.

 

[jaxwithanx]

Is there a rub to this? Of course! The outdoor area and garage need to be fed with an analog audio source. Red/White RCA jacks. That can be a computer, or a MP3 player of some sort, but it won't handle audio from HDMI or similar. It also really will need some additional thought put into it if you want to be able to switch between multiple audio sources. Not impossible, just a bit more effort.

Gotcha. All of it makes sense. I'm going to look for one of those Sonance amps (may try and win that one) and pick up that Monoprice selector.

As far as sources - it would only be the touchscreen computer I'm putting in the cabinet and my TV. I assume I'll probably go TV to receiver with HDMI and computer sound card to receiver with an optical. I can also run an analog from the sound card to the secondary amp for outdoors, but I guess I would then to switch between outputs on my computer which might get monotonous, plus would I be able to output to both from my computer for dual zone listening?

I'm not sure how I would hook TV up to secondary amplifier for outdoor speakers and it may not really matter too much, as listening to the TV outside would be a rare occurrence. I also have two Chrome audios and two Chromecasts but I know that doesn't really play into this scenario right now.

 

[XEagleDriver]

The reason I did not suggest this, is that you will not have individual volume control for those two zones. They will be 'ON' at the same volume as the family room, or off. If you want to listen in the garage, or outside, without the family room on, you can't do it. If you want to listen to music outside, and the family room as cable TV, you can't do it.

That's not very clear in this post that you lose what I would consider core functionality for those other two zones. The ability to run discrete volume to them and to run a different source to them as you desire. This is really made easier with a two-zone A/V receiver (or three zones), but a separate amplifier and volume control/speaker selector as linked in my prior post gives you much more flexibility in listening to your system, without a to of cash outlay.

JAX,
Good discussion, a bit more info.

BMXTRIX made several excellent points and his proposed solution provides the most flexibility at the expense of a bit more equipment/cost and a slight increase in complexity of operation.

However, there actually is a way to address his concern on being able to select only one zone at a time by the clever use of Sony's assignable SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B speaker amps/terminals and the use of the Sony's SPEAKER A/B/A+B switch on the front panel. This is what I have done (with a Yamaha AVR) and it works very well for our family.

1) IMHO, during actual use there is rarely (if ever) a need to send different source signals to the separate zones. It sounds like a cool capability, but is rarely a problem in need of a solution.
- I find in practice, we either run all zones at the same time (Xmas party mode) or run the one zone where we are; family room to watch TV, porch to enjoy a cool one, or deck while BBQing dinner.

2) Furthermore, I have yet to find a 2 or 3 zone AVR where the interface to switch zones/sources is enjoyable or intuitive, YMMV. It works, but is a PITA compared to just pushing a couple of speaker selection buttons, maybe I am just a simpleton

Here is the description of the feature you leverage to make this work from the Sony 750 manual:

SP A: Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS FRONT A terminals.
SP B (*): Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT HIGH/FRONT B terminals.
SP A+B (*): Speakers connected to both the SPEAKERS FRONT A and SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT HIGH/FRONT B terminals (parallel connection).
(None): [SPK OFF] appears on the display panel. No audio signals are output from any speaker terminals.
* To select [SP B] or [SP A+B], set the assignment for the SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B terminals to [Speaker B] by using [SB Assign] in the Speaker Settings menu.

If you have further interest in this option I can outline the settings and slight change to the connections needed to make it work in another post.

XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

 

[jaxwithanx]

JAX,
Good discussion, a bit more info.

BMXTRIX made several excellent points and his proposed solution provides the most flexibility at the expense of a bit more equipment/cost and a slight increase in complexity of operation.

However, there actually is a way to address his concern on being able to select only one zone at a time by the clever use of Sony's assignable SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B speaker amps/terminals and the use of the Sony's SPEAKER A/B/A+B switch on the front panel. This is what I have done (with a Yamaha AVR) and it works very well for our family.

1) IMHO, during actual use there is rarely (if ever) a need to send different source signals to the separate zones. It sounds like a cool capability, but is rarely a problem in need of a solution.
- I find in practice, we either run all zones at the same time (Xmas party mode) or run the one zone where we are; family room to watch TV, porch to enjoy a cool one, or deck while BBQing dinner.

2) Furthermore, I have yet to find a 2 or 3 zone AVR where the interface to switch zones/sources is enjoyable or intuitive, YMMV. It works, but is a PITA compared to just pushing a couple of speaker selection buttons, maybe I am just a simpleton

Here is the description of the feature you leverage to make this work from the Sony 750 manual:

SP A: Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS FRONT A terminals.
SP B (*): Speakers connected to the SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT HIGH/FRONT B terminals.
SP A+B (*): Speakers connected to both the SPEAKERS FRONT A and SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT HIGH/FRONT B terminals (parallel connection).
(None): [SPK OFF] appears on the display panel. No audio signals are output from any speaker terminals.
* To select [SP B] or [SP A+B], set the assignment for the SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B terminals to [Speaker B] by using [SB Assign] in the Speaker Settings menu.

If you have further interest in this option I can outline the settings and slight change to the connections needed to make it work in another post.

XEagleDriver

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

I appreciate all the detailed response. Especially since it seems you're on a phone!

I agree that it would typically be rare to actually listen to seperate sources within the home. The only reason I even looked for this possibility is due to the garage speakers. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine my girlfriend watching TV inside while I work on my various crap/cars in the garage. That being said, it's now occurred to me that I would probably just as soon have the garage speakers on an entirely separate system that I can access from there. It's a big garage and makes more sense to just have this separate as while our courtyard is a social space people may move in and out of the living room towards....they won't be headed to my garage. At least not the kind of parties we tend to find ourselves in now at 32.

I think just keeping the living room and courtyard on the same source would be just fine as long as I could turn off the courtyard speakers separately when not needed (90% of the time). I am worried however about the balance of volume between the two zones as I assume I wouldn't be able to regulate/balance that if both zones were active. I'd just hate for it to be blaring in the living room and quiet in the courtyard or vice versa with zero ability to balance.

 

[XEagleDriver]

I appreciate all the detailed response. Especially since it seems you're on a phone!

I agree that it would typically be rare to actually listen to seperate sources within the home. The only reason I even looked for this possibility is due to the garage speakers. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine my girlfriend watching TV inside while I work on my various crap/cars in the garage. That being said, it's now occurred to me that I would probably just as soon have the garage speakers on an entirely separate system that I can access from there. It's a big garage and makes more sense to just have this separate as while our courtyard is a social space people may move in and out of the living room towards....they won't be headed to my garage. At least not the kind of parties we tend to find ourselves in now at 32.

I think just keeping the living room and courtyard on the same source would be just fine as long as I could turn off the courtyard speakers separately when not needed (90% of the time).

I am worried however about the balance of volume between the two zones as I assume I wouldn't be able to regulate/balance that if both zones were active. I'd just hate for it to be blaring in the living room and quiet in the courtyard or vice versa with zero ability to balance.

JAX,
Awesome house BTW, not unlike the retirement home my Dad built in CA.

I agree having the garage on a separate system is the way to go (could be as simple as a boom box, it is just a garage!). Your GF probably wouldn't appreciate tracking grease and grime through the house every time you need to adjust source/volume/repeat that great 90's song/etc.

"Kind of parties at 32", that was hilarious; my wife and I are ~20 years beyond that mark, for us merely staying awake until the guests finally leave is the ULTIMEATE goal!

Turning off the main room or courtyard zone is easily accomplished through either: a 2-Zone AVR (BMXTRIX's solution) or my solution using Sony's front-panel speaker switch (toggle from A-Speakers to B-Speakers) to turn main room on/off; or the Speaker Selector Switch to turn the courtyard on/off.

While on the topic, this is how to set the Sony to accomplish the above:

Connect and Set the Sony receiver as follows:
a) Main room two front speakers to the Sony's Front L/R speaker outputs;
b) Main room two rear speakers to the Sony's Surround L/R speaker outputs;
c) Install the inexpensive Speaker Selector Switch with impedance protection near the Sony.
WARNING: Ensure impedance protection is ON to avoid damaging your Sony receiver!!
d) Connect the Sony SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B L/R speaker outputs to the Speaker Selector Switch L/R inputs and connect the courtyard speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #1 (also garage speakers to L/R output #2, if you go that route).
e) Set the Sony SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B amplifier assignment to [Speaker B] using the [SB Assign] command in the Speaker Settings menu.

With the above done:
- The Sony front-panel SPEAKER SWITCH in the Speaker A position enables "main room only sound", in the Speaker B position" enables "courtyard only sound", and in the Speaker A+B position enables sound in both zones.
Alternatively, in the Speaker A+B or Speaker B position, toggling the SPEAKER SELECTOR SWITH on/off will enable or kill (mute) sound to the courtyard.

It is much easier to do than to describe (the bane of all manual writers).

Cheers,
XEagleDriver825654

 

[jaxwithanx]

JAX,
Awesome house BTW, not unlike the retirement home my Dad built in CA.

I agree having the garage on a separate system is the way to go (could be as simple as a boom box, it is just a garage!). Your GF probably wouldn't appreciate tracking grease and grime through the house every time you need to adjust source/volume/repeat that great 90's song/etc.

"Kind of parties at 32", that was hilarious; my wife and I are ~20 years beyond that mark, for us merely staying awake until the guests finally leave is the ULTIMEATE goal!

Turning off the main room or courtyard zone is easily accomplished through either: a 2-Zone AVR (BMXTRIX's solution) or my solution using Sony's front-panel speaker switch (toggle from A-Speakers to B-Speakers) to turn main room on/off; or the Speaker Selector Switch to turn the courtyard on/off.

While on the topic, this is how to set the Sony to accomplish the above:

Connect and Set the Sony receiver as follows:
a) Main room two front speakers to the Sony's Front L/R speaker outputs;
b) Main room two rear speakers to the Sony's Surround L/R speaker outputs;
c) Install the inexpensive Speaker Selector Switch with impedance protection near the Sony.
WARNING: Ensure impedance protection is ON to avoid damaging your Sony receiver!!
d) Connect the Sony SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B L/R speaker outputs to the Speaker Selector Switch L/R inputs and connect the courtyard speakers to Selector Switch L/R output #1 (also garage speakers to L/R output #2, if you go that route).
e) Set the Sony SPEAKERS SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP/FRONT B amplifier assignment to [Speaker B] using the [SB Assign] command in the Speaker Settings menu.

With the above done:
- The Sony front-panel SPEAKER SWITCH in the Speaker A position enables "main room only sound", in the Speaker B position" enables "courtyard only sound", and in the Speaker A+B position enables sound in both zones.
Alternatively, in the Speaker A+B or Speaker B position, toggling the SPEAKER SELECTOR SWITH on/off will enable or kill (mute) sound to the courtyard.

It is much easier to do than to describe (the bane of all manual writers).

Cheers,
XEagleDriver825654

TBH me and my girlfriend are pretty much in the same boat now with parties. We're just trying to last until an appropriate time to call it quits. Every once in a while we get in a good, solid party night were we make it to closing time.

Your instructions make perfect sense believe it or not. Now I just need to decide whether or not to wait for a good Monoprice sale to grab the speakers and selector switch. They have so many, I'm sure I'll inevitably buy the day before they have a site-wide sale.

(Anyone) have any thoughts about those speakers in general and pros/cons of whether to retrofit the round ceilings or rectangular in-walls? Any other recommendations at a similar price point? These 8"ers recommended by @BoredSysAdmin just as good? I am clueless in regards to trying to decipher positive speaker specs. Seem similar except the Monoprice options carrying a higher watt capacity.

 

[jaxwithanx]

Also, these little subwoofers are on sale. In the image below you will see a low built in cabinet to the right. There is a little sectioned off portion that was wired to originally hold a small speaker as well. Would installing this little sub there be worth the $11 or would it even be possible with my receiver? That cabinet is actually more or less behind the couch in the current setup.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Also, these little subwoofers are on sale. In the image below you will see a low built in cabinet to the right. There is a little sectioned off portion that was wired to originally hold a small speaker as well. Would installing this little sub there be worth the $11 or would it even be possible with my receiver? That cabinet is actually more or less behind the couch in the current setup.

8" passive sub not worth it, and not possible without a separate amp. Adding an additional 8" woofer will provide little to no additional bass to the system.
A bare minimum for a sub in your situation is a 10" powered model like the Polk PSW110 (~$250). It is 15"x15"x17" if that is small enough for the cabinet. Please keep in mind, placing a self contained sub in a cabinet is not a recommended placement.

From the earlier post, I have both the round and rectangular monoprice in ceiling installs.
FWIW, no real difference in sound as far as I can tell. Rectangular are easier to install and I like having tweeter to the side a bit better.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

 

[jaxwithanx]

8" passive sub not worth it, and not possible without a separate amp. Adding an additional 8" woofer will provide little to no additional bass to the system.
A bare minimum for a sub in your situation is a 10" powered model like the Polk PSW110 (~$250). It is 15"x15"x17" if that is small enough for the cabinet. Please keep in mind, placing a self contained sub in a cabinet is not a recommended placement.

From the earlier post, I have both the round and rectangular monoprice in ceiling installs.
FWIW, no real difference in sound as far as I can tell. Rectangular are easier to install and I like having tweeter to the side a bit better.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk

Cool makes sense. I already had reservations about throwing bass through built-in cabinetry but figured I'd ask. I'm going to purchase everything tomorrow. Four rectangular speakers, the 2-channel volume adjustable switch box and some CAT6A cables that will be handy when setting up my home network and automation devices.

 

[Tankman]

This is my living room, mind you this is some ehat budget equipment, that I spent more then a couple of years shopping for to get the best deals on, and I am over 3 grand in...

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Sweet set-up!

 

[lovinthehd]

Also, these little subwoofers are on sale. In the image below you will see a low built in cabinet to the right. There is a little sectioned off portion that was wired to originally hold a small speaker as well. Would installing this little sub there be worth the $11 or would it even be possible with my receiver? That cabinet is actually more or less behind the couch in the current setup.

For a decent hidden subwoofer might check out one like Paradigm Dawg's, he got one of these it's installed behind this