Advice on pairing a external amp with the Yamaha RX-A3060

[JSpring]

90% of time I feel my RX-A3060 is a fine performer on daily tasks. Unfortunately, the other 10% of the time when I want some more extreme forms of music at much louder volumes, I feel like it's missing the magic was contained in my first Yamaha from the 90s. It's really hard to quantify without using flowery and poetic language. My current setup is as follows.

Yamaha RX-A3060
2 Klipsch RF-7 II
1 Klipsch RC-64 II
2 Klipsch RP-250S
2 SVS PC-2000

It looks like the Emotiva XPA Gen3 might be a good match but it only has one professional review that I could find.
I've also looked at the Anthem A2 even though it costs more.

Does anyone here already have one of these amps paired with the RX-A3060?
Are there any others that should be at the top of my list?

 

[TheWarrior]

Nice receiver! I'm waiting for the 3070 to come out so I can nab the 3060 on closeout!

I'd save the money and get the Emotiva A-300. Your high sensitivity speakers have zero need for an XPA amp, they just need a separate power supply to adequately energize your woofers and scrape out some extra details in the high frequencies. I use older UPA-1's on my Philharmonic 3's and the difference from receivers was immediately noticeable.

 

[PENG]

According to this review, you should be able to drive the RF-7II with a clock radio. If you really believe more power will help, get a couple of Crown XLS-2502 and the speakers definitely won't ask you for more.

 

[ATLAudio]

The Emotiva XPA2 did help fix exactly what you're talking about with my set up. But, as @TheWarrior said, you'll probably be just fine with the A-300. Another option is the A-700 and bi-amp the 7s and 64, leaving one amp unused.

 

[3db]

I have to agree wigh PENG. Those Klipsch are high on the sensitivity rating meaning that they require very little power to make ghdm sing loudy. The A3060 has a very robust power supply and amplifier.. (pkesse read Audioholics's revies on the A3000 which in 2 channel tests delivered more power than an Emotiva power smplifier). If you don't like the sound, I suggest looking at different speakers.

 

[PENG]

Nice receiver! I'm waiting for the 3070 to come out so I can nab the 3060 on closeout!

I'd save the money and get the Emotiva A-300. Your high sensitivity speakers have zero need for an XPA amp, they just need a separate power supply to adequately energize your woofers and scrape out some extra details in the high frequencies. I use older UPA-1's on my Philharmonic 3's and the difference from receivers was immediately noticeable.

ADTG drove the Phil 3's (pair) with his lowly AVR-3312 (or 3313?) and sounded fine to him, must be the room size thing.

 

[TheWarrior]

ADTG drove the Phil 3's (pair) with his lowly AVR-3312 (or 3313?) and sounded fine to him, must be the room size thing.

Isn't he surrounded by five T-2's - You trust his hearing?? ;-)

 

[ATLAudio]

I have to agree wigh PENG. Those Klipsch are high on the sensitivity rating meaning that they require very little power to make ghdm sing loudy. The A3060 has a very robust power supply and amplifier.. (pkesse read Audioholics's revies on the A3000 which in 2 channel tests delivered more power than an Emotiva power smplifier). If you don't like the sound, I suggest looking at different speakers.

While quite efficient, the RF-7 II has a decent size 3 ohm dip in the mid bass that a solid 4 ohm stable power amp will have an easier time with.

Maybe find an amp vendor with a liberal return policy before you change out speakers?

 

[PENG]

Isn't he surrounded by five T-2's - You trust his hearing?? ;-)

Funny, it did cross my mind but then if I remember right, Dennis might have said something about the Phil 3's are not really that hard to drive and that the AVR-3312 would be fine for those 4 ohm speakers.

 

[ATLAudio]

@PENG

My claim was mostly a reverse assumption after I listened with the Emo. I noticed improvement in the mid bass So I looked up specs on the speakers which revealed the 3 ohm dip; so I went with that.

However, the benefit is still there and it's quite noticeable.

 

[PENG]

While quite efficient, the RF-7 II has a decent size 3 ohm dip in the mid bass that a solid 4 ohm stable power amp will have an easier time with.

Maybe find an amp vendor with a liberal return policy before you change out speakers?

I realize that there maybe impedance dips and I think 3 dB knows that too.

Below are the specs of the RF-7II found on their website:

101dB @ 2.83V / 1m, 8 ohms compatible

So let's assume it is actually 3 ohm nominal, the adjusted sensitivity would still be quite high at 101-4.25 = 96.75 dB.

Now let's further assume Klipsch inflated the sensitivity by 3 dB, the further adjusted sensitivity would become 93.75 dB 1W/1m (I don't use 2.83V any more after the 3 ohm adjustment/correction). That's still much easier to drive than 8 ohm speakers with say 87 dB sensitivity.

This shows that it should be relatively easy for the 3060 to do reference level in a medium size room by THX standard, that is 85 dB plus 20 dB to allow for dynamic peaks.

Sorry, I don't really like using math to prove a point, especially to someone like you who obviously know the math well. Just that I felt strongly this 4 ohm load thing tends to get overrated very often on forums. The fact is, assuming the power handling capability of the speakers is not an issue, sensitivity, room dimensions, and sitting distance very often have more combined impacts on obtainable spl than impedance drops from 8 to 4 ohms or even 3 ohms. I think to determine how much power one needs, it is almost always better to consider the overall picture instead of just impedance and/or sensitivity of the speakers.

 

[PENG]

@PENG

My claim was mostly a reverse assumption after I listened with the Emo. I noticed improvement in the mid bass So I looked up specs on the speakers which revealed the 3 ohm dip; so I went with that.

However, the benefit is still there and it's quite noticeable.

RF-62 sensitivity is 97 dB vs RF-7II's 101 dB, as you know 3 dB difference in sensitivity means 1/2, or 2X power requirement. Room size/sitting distance may also explain your experience.

if the OP has a large room and sits far away, then I am sure he will benefit from adding an external amp too, but in that case I think he should consider something that offers at least 2X the rated power of the 3060.

 

[3db]

While quite efficient, the RF-7 II has a decent size 3 ohm dip in the mid bass that a solid 4 ohm stable power amp will have an easier time with.

Maybe find an amp vendor with a liberal return policy before you change out speakers?

My speakers have a dip into 4 ohms near the mid bass , are not anywhere as sensitive as thosr Klipxch and my RX-V1800 is not as powerful as the A3060 and yet I have no problems filling the room with distortion free sound. Not buying the 3 ohm dip argument, especially with the A3060 that will best some Emotiva amps into two channels. Id chnage out the speakers.

 

[ATLAudio]

@3db Again, whatever the Emotiva did do, it fixed this exact issue I was having. The ohm dip was more of an assumption, which @PENG helped clean up. Since the OP said this issue didn't happen in his older model Yamaha, suggesting new speakers doesn't sound like rational advice, but seems a bit rash.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADTG drove the Phil 3's (pair) with his lowly AVR-3312 (or 3313?) and sounded fine to him, must be the room size thing.

I drove the B&W 802D2 and Phil3 with the Denon 3312 just fine.

A long time ago, I powered my DefTech BP7000SC, which I think has a minimum impedance DIP of 2.7 ohms, with a 50 Watts per Channel Harman Kardon AVR.

Actually the 50WPC AVR powered the DT BP7000, BP7001, & CLR3000 speakers, all had impedance dip below 4 ohms (2.7-3 ohms).

The room was 15FT x 17FT x 15FT ceiling. I was sitting 12FT away.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Isn't he surrounded by five T-2's - You trust his hearing?? ;-)

Why..................You................

And each T2 tower is bi-amped by the ATI AT3000 300WPC amps.

But....... I am sitting 18 FT away from the speakers now (room is 26FT x 22FT x 14FT ceiling).

 

[3db]

@3db Again, whatever the Emotiva did do, it fixed this exact issue I was having. The ohm dip was more of an assumption, which @PENG helped clean up. Since the OP said this issue didn't happen in his older model Yamaha, suggesting new speakers doesn't sound like rational advice, but seems a bit rash.

I wanna redo with blind listening test

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

According to Crown, if your speaker is 90 dB/W/M, LP 4 meters away, desired volume 90dB, 3dB Amp Headroom, your speaker only needs 32 Watts.

If Sen is 96 dB/w/m, 4m LP, 96dB Vol, your speaker needs 32 Watts.


http://www.crownaudio.com/en/tools/calculators#amp_power_required

 

[JSpring]

UPDATE: I have not upgraded anything and it's been almost a year.
It just didn't seem like it was clear cut on what would get me the results I want.
The system sounds great except that 10% of the time when I want more power for things like my 5.1 1812 Overture SA CD. I'm still not sure on how to move forward.

 

[lovinthehd]

One way to find out....