Help to choose Legacy SE vs XD

[Sonic Guild]

Any idea how the SE compared to the XD?
The room correction feature that can be used with XD and Wavelet, does it really work? How it is compared to the SE?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Why Legacy speakers only. At 10k budget you'd have plenty of great choices, like for one is Salk SoundScape 8 which I personally think is best speaker I heard at any price point, which is including top end B&W Diamonds and 100k Wilson Audio Maxx speakers.

 

[Sonic Guild]

Why Legacy speakers only. At 10k budget you'd have plenty of great choices, like for one is Salk SoundScape 8 which I personally think is best speaker I heard at any price point, which is including top end B&W Diamonds and 100k Wilson Audio Maxx speakers.

The only reason is the ability of both XD and SE to go below 20hz, which is phenomenal at this price range.
Have you heard the Olympica 3?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The only reason is the ability of both XD and SE to go below 20hz, which is phenomenal at this price range.
Have you heard the Olympica 3?

Honestly I haven't heard any of legacy audio speakers.

To your point of -2db at 18hz. That's somewhat interesting, but a) I don't know how it was measured and b) SS8's -3db point is not far off at 25hz and SS10 at 22hz.

Either of these numbers is already crazy low for most music and if you want to have your whole home rumble and shake - you would want a subwoofer anyhow.

 

[slipperybidness]

Why Legacy speakers only. At 10k budget you'd have plenty of great choices, like for one is Salk SoundScape 8 which I personally think is best speaker I heard at any price point, which is including top end B&W Diamonds and 100k Wilson Audio Maxx speakers.

Salk site has a set of used SS10 for $10k right now too!
http://www.salksound.com/available-list.php?id=4

 

[Irvrobinson]

Any idea how the SE compared to the XD?
The room correction feature that can be used with XD and Wavelet, does it really work? How it is compared to the SE?

I assume you're talking about the Focus SE and XD?

A few comments, as a past Legacy Focus owner (though my Focus was the 1996 version). First, as with any speaker intended for serious listening, you need to listen for yourself. These speakers are big and expensive, as are the Salks that slipperyb is pushing, and it's a PITA to ship them back if you really won't like them.

My old Focus didn't image very well, though with those new midrange and tweeter drivers there may be a significant difference. I should also mention that my old Focus had a remarkable bass extension spec just like the new ones, but the reality was nowhere near the spec, and it rolled off steeply after about 32Hz. While 32Hz may seem wimpy to the subwoofer fans around here, a truly flat 32Hz signal at 105db+ at the listening seat (which the Focus is easily capable of) sounds rather impressive. But if you're looking for even 25Hz out of these speakers, I'd listen first with test tones, to be sure they're capable of it.

While I haven't heard the new versions of the Focus, I have not heard a speaker with AMT tweeters I have been happy with. Admittedly, the best one I heard was the GoldenEar, and perhaps I was expecting Salon2/B&W 80xD tweeter performance, but I didn't hear what I was looking for. I'd be anxious to hear the Legacies if I had the chance.

 

[Sonic Guild]

I assume you're talking about the Focus SE and XD?

A few comments, as a past Legacy Focus owner (though my Focus was the 1996 version). First, as with any speaker intended for serious listening, you need to listen for yourself. These speakers are big and expensive, as are the Salks that slipperyb is pushing, and it's a PITA to ship them back if you really won't like them.

My old Focus didn't image very well, though with those new midrange and tweeter drivers there may be a significant difference. I should also mention that my old Focus had a remarkable bass extension spec just like the new ones, but the reality was nowhere near the spear, and it rolled off steeply after about 32Hz. While 32Hz may seem wimpy to the subwoofer fans around here, a truly flat 32Hz signal at 105db+ at the listening seat (which the Focus is easily capable of) sounds rather impressive. But if you're looking for even 25Hz out of these speakers, I'd listen first with test tones, to be sure they're capable of it.

While I haven't heard the new versions of the Focus, I have not heard a speaker with AMT tweeters I have been happy with. Admittedly, the best one I heard was the GoldenEar, and perhaps I was expecting Salon2/B&W 80xD tweeter performance, but I didn't hear what I was looking for. I'd be anxious to hear the Legacies if I had the chance.

Yes the Focus SE and XD

 

[David C. Snyder]

I assume you're talking about the Focus SE and XD?

My old Focus didn't image very well, though with those new midrange and tweeter drivers there may be a significant difference. I should also mention that my old Focus had a remarkable bass extension spec just like the new ones, but the reality was nowhere near the spec, and it rolled off steeply after about 32Hz. While 32Hz may seem wimpy to the subwoofer fans around here, a truly flat 32Hz signal at 105db+ at the listening seat (which the Focus is easily capable of) sounds rather impressive. But if you're looking for even 25Hz out of these speakers, I'd listen first with test tones, to be sure they're capable of it.

I owned the original FOCUS for 10 years, upgraded to the FOCUS SE with planar ribbon tweeters and again to the AirMotion model:

(smaller but better sounding room after a move to the west coast and a ton of work)

​

I never thought that the original FOCUS was weak at imaging, but getting a great soundstage did require careful setup, toe-in, and ensuring that the listening position was at the right height. Most chairs are too low, so an office chair with pneumatic lift is ideal for dialing in the correct height.

Bass extension; however, is completely different between the two models. You'd expect that going from three active 12" woofers to only two would negatively impact bass extension. You'd be wrong. While the original FOCUS used three relatively inexpensive Eminence woofers, the SE uses a pair of Aura drivers with 20mm linear peak to peak excursion (44mm max). A very different animal:

In a larger room, I expect that extension down to 20 and possibly 18Hz is actually possible. In my current smaller 15.5ft x 10.1ft room, I have extension down to 22Hz after room correction (to pull down the peaks):

I agree with previous comments that extension below 32Hz is probably not essential for most music. Bill even recommends electronically rolling response off at 32Hz to installers of his active models. However, extension below that frequency is occasionally interesting. For example, with extension down to at least 22Hz, you'll observe a low rumble that starts about two minutes into the second track of Kind of Blue. I'm not sure what it is, and it obviously does not contribute to the track musically. You'll hear something similar in the first few tracks of The Cape Verdean Blues by the Horace Silver Quintet on XRCD. Perhaps it helps to establish presence, but again, not beneficial musically. It's really just very low-frequency noise.

Anyway, point is that the new FOCUS SE in a properly setup room can image like a pair of mini-monitors with extension that approaches a pair of dedicated active subs. Is it the best loudspeaker in the world? Obviously not, but it's unquestionably a lot of loudspeaker with tremendous performance for the money.

 

[Irvrobinson]

That is a very small room for speakers the size of the Focus.

Bill D obviously changed the tuning and bass alignment of the system, since a change in drivers doesn't explain an increase in extension by about half an octave. I agree that extension to 20Hz can provide audible with some kinds of music and venues. I'm not sure if hearing the HVAC system better is especially musical, but it does convey an aura of realism. Many fusion jazz albums contain sub-32Hz bass.

Maybe someday I'll hear the latest Legacies. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase.

 

[Sonic Guild]

Did any of you manage to listen to the Aeris and Focus XD/SE?
Can I say that the Aeris provides larger sound stage and better imaging due to open baffle design?
I came across an article which claims that using the Wavelet with the XD makes the experience too close to the Aeris. Any thoughts?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Don't think that you could find someone whom compared these speakers, but at your price point you should only trust your own ears. I think that you will be extremely impressed with SALK audio offerings and they great value for mid to high end speakers. My point is comparing specs on different speakers measuring by different people is likely not possible or advisable. Buying based on subjective reviews is not great either and measurements posted above would me me run for alternatives as fast as possible.

 

[Sonic Guild]

Don't think that you could find someone whom compared these speakers, but at your price point you should only trust your own ears. I think that you will be extremely impressed with SALK audio offerings and they great value for mid to high end speakers. My point is comparing specs on different speakers measuring by different people is likely not possible or advisable. Buying based on subjective reviews is not great either and measurements posted above would me me run for alternatives as fast as possible.

I agree with you but I am trying all my best to know about potential speakers. In my city there are no Salk or Legacy dealers. I can not audition any of them. So my ONLY way is to read reviews (which I don't trust at all!) and to ask the community members on audio forums.
I totally understand that it is subjective but that is all what I can do!
Thanks for the advice though

 

[Sonic Guild]

Don't think that you could find someone whom compared these speakers, but at your price point you should only trust your own ears. I think that you will be extremely impressed with SALK audio offerings and they great value for mid to high end speakers. My point is comparing specs on different speakers measuring by different people is likely not possible or advisable. Buying based on subjective reviews is not great either and measurements posted above would me me run for alternatives as fast as possible.

One more thing, what about the measurements?
I don't know how to read graphs.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

One more thing, what about the measurements?
I don't know how to read graphs.

Reading measuring graph could be more revealing than reading 1000 words subjectively describing a speaker.
here few articles to help you:
http://www.ecoustics.com/articles/understanding-speaker-frequency-response/
http://novo.press/understanding-speaker-specifications-and-frequency-response/

Keep in mind, depends on how it was measured frequency below 300hz could be ignored as they mostly represent speakers/room interactions - ie - in your room, depends on room, placement, furniture, rugs - it could (and likely will) be vastly different.

tl;dr; The goal is to see frequency response to be flat. It doesn't mean it sounds flat - it means it's accurate and true - this is how I want my speakers to be. not play their interpretation of recorded music.
Be wary of 1/3 smoothing and very large frequency ranges, like 120db plot - these are marketing dirty tricks to show you a ruler flat fr then in reality is couldn't be farther from flat.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I cannot audition any of them.

Like Irv mentioned, it's a PITA to sell and ship any big speakers if you don't like them after buying them purely based on reviews.

I've had to sell my Salon2, B&W 802D2, Phil3, DefTech BP7000SC, BP7001SC, & SuperCube Trinity Sub, and many others.

PITA.

All these speakers, including Legacy, are great speakers. But there are MANY great speakers that can play 20Hz.

I also caution reading the specs on bass responses. So many times a company will advertise 18 Hz or even less, but the reality is often untrue or at least misleading.

Unless you just love and must have the aesthetics of those Legacy speakers, for $10K or even $5K, I recommend you audition the speakers for YOURSELF.

One more thing, what about the measurements?
I don't know how to read graphs.

And I would learn how to read graphs first before spending $10K on speakers.

 

[Sonic Guild]

Like Irv mentioned, it's a PITA to sell and ship any big speakers if you don't like them after buying them purely based on reviews.

I've had to sell my Salon2, B&W 802D2, Phil3, DefTech BP7000SC, BP7001SC, & SuperCube Trinity Sub, and many others.

PITA.

All these speakers, including Legacy, are great speakers. But there are MANY great speakers that can play 20Hz.

I also caution reading the specs on bass responses. So many times a company will advertise 18 Hz or even less, but the reality is often untrue or at least misleading.

Unless you just love and must have the aesthetics of those Legacy speakers, for $10K or even $5K, I recommend you audition the speakers for YOURSELF.



And I would learn how to read graphs first before spending $10K on speakers.

I guess that you are a dealer and knows much more compared to me.
If you don't mind I would like to ask you to suggest a list of speakers that goes really low in terms of bass. I am asking, so I can check if they are available in the closest province for audition. In my city I am limited to Sonus Faber, B&W and Martin Logan. Unfortunately, non of them present the bass in the way that I like.
Thanks

 

[David C. Snyder]

...so I can check if they are available in the closest province for audition. In my city I am limited to Sonus Faber, B&W and Martin Logan. Unfortunately, non of them present the bass in the way that I like.
Thanks

Ah...I take it that you're not in the US then. Are you in Canada?

B&W has loudspeakers that present bass well, but they are not inexpensive, that's for sure! Apparently the latest darling of the audio press is the Tekton Design Double Impact. You may want to add them to your list if they ship to your location:

http://www.tektondesign.com/ddimpact.html

You can read more about them here: http://www.tektondesign.com/test.html

 

[Sonic Guild]

Ah...I take it that you're not in the US then. Are you in Canada?

B&W has loudspeakers that present bass well, but they are not inexpensive, that's for sure! Apparently the latest darling of the audio press is the Tekton Design Double Impact. You may want to add them to your list if they ship to your location:

http://www.tektondesign.com/ddimpact.html

You can read more about them here: http://www.tektondesign.com/test.html

Yes, Canada!

For unknown reason, I find the B&W dry and emotionless!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is one example of Spec vs Measurement.

The Legacy Whisper Spec:
Frequency response: 22Hz–30kHz +/- 2dB
Price: $15,750/pair–$17,500/pair

http://www.stereophile.com/content/legacy-audio-whisper-loudspeaker-specifications#L4D5fMfMH4fYXOt8.97

Yet, when Stereophile measured, one listening room had a bass response (-2dB) of ~ 45Hz, while another room had a bass response of ~ 35Hz (-2dB). Both significantly different from the listed response of 22Hz.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/legacy-audio-whisper-loudspeaker-measurements#F9CgW8yip8JMsXxd.97

So if they listed a speaker at 18Hz response, one room's response may be 41Hz and another room may be 31Hz. Who knows?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, Canada!

For unknown reason, I find the B&W dry and emotionless!

Where in Canada?

What other speakers have you listened to?