Stereo amps Vs AVRs

[Mechanizmo]

You asked “Which of following options do you chose for having the best audio quality, stereo amp or AVR?”

You seem to want a simple answer, but you’re unhappy with the answers posted before. They all were longer and more complex. Here are some simple answers.

• Speakers do matter. Extra money spent on speakers will much more likely produce better quality sound than extra money spent on electronics (pre-amps, amplifiers, integrated amps, or receivers).
  
  
• Speakers require enough amplifier power to adequately drive them. Just how much power varies with the speaker, the owner’s listening preferences, and the acoustic properties of the owner’s room.
  
  
• An amplifier should have enough reserve power available for short-term use on loud musical peaks such that it never goes into clipping (a condition where the amp is over-driven). As long as this condition is met, most any amplifier will work as well as another. Therefore, the amount of amplifier power does matter for sound quality, in the sense that there should always be enough.
  
  
• Modern AVRs are more complicated than the much older stereo integrated amps. AVRs are essentially computers dedicated to audio and video use. They perform many functions on digital audio signals, and then convert digital to analog, all in the pre-amp stage. Just after that, they amplify the analog signals (anywhere from 5 to 11 channels) to send to the speakers. Nearly all stereo integrated amps operate only with analog audio, have simple basic pre-amp stages, followed by 2 amplification channels. Their design is essentially no different than it was in the years before AVRs dominated sales.
  
  
• One major reason for the price differences is the scale of manufacturing. If an AVR manufacturer produces 5,000 units, and a stereo amplifier maker produces 500 units, the AVR will cost less per unit than the stereo amplifier. The most expensive parts inside these items are the power supply transformers and the machined aluminum parts including the heat sinks and face plates. The AVR maker can negotiate a lower price for these items because of the numbers it orders. In any factory, the more units made during a production run, the lower the cost per unit. It’s a simple fact of life that many more AVRs are sold than stereo amps.
  
  
• Despite what you may have read or been told by salesmen, there is little if any difference in the sound quality among different pre-amps, amplifiers, integrated amplifiers, or receivers. This is true if they are 2 channel or multi-channel. This is true despite very large differences in price. You have been told this repeatedly, but you cannot seem to accept that answer.

I agree.....foremost the part to utilize funds for better speakers rather than amps...! I know someone on another site with your avatar? Are you on Blu ray's forum? thanks,
Bri

 

[whiplash]

I agree.....foremost the part to utilize funds for better speakers rather than amps...! I know someone on another site with your avatar? Are you on Blu ray's forum? thanks,
Bri

Maybe I'm a fool, cause I'm one of them who payed more for the amp(integrate amp) than to the speakers, but I'm really proud about this investment Maybe an AVR at + $4000 you can say it's a good one for stereo, but the others, under this price, not in the most sweet dreams can even though to match an integrate amp.

 

[MrBoat]

Maybe I'm a fool, cause I'm one of them who payed more for the amp(integrate amp) than to the speakers, but I'm really proud about this investment Maybe an AVR at + $4000 you can say it's a good one for stereo, but the others, under this price, not in the most sweet dreams can even though to match an integrate amp.

Not going to disagree with you because the poll asks; "Which one of the following would 'you' choose for the best audio quality?"

Not the best or worst because, not only is that subjective, but relies on one's particular economic situation etc. Someone like myself for instance, could not immediately justify the cost of an integrated amp with minimal features compared to an AVR. Such as, multiple pre-outs for additional amps for a subwoofer or other speakers. Meanwhile, I have a pretty decently (actually it's awesome)performing sound system. I can then add higher performing audio amplifiers as time/finances allows if need be without buying a preamp and still be pretty darn close to top notch sound quality to where the better speakers start to null the audible differences of an integrated amp. I have 3 different integrated amps. If I really wanted to pick the fly-poop from the ointment, I could drive myself nuts doing side-by-side comparisons of all the equipment I own and still end up second guessing everything.


Half the reason these discussions come up is not because someone's well selected sound system is actually lacking, as much as someone telling them it might be. Still, the most unanimous, experienced opinion mentioned here and elsewhere is going to favor better speakers as a sure bet. If your system already sounds awesome, with an AVR, dedicated stereo amp, integrated or otherwise, what real audible difference does it make?

Still, you can't say outright that someone with an AVR cannot match an integrated amp. Just the difference in their listening space alone, their experience with EQ can make all the difference in the world from their house to yours. For all you know, I could be surpassing your system just for the having the right mix of a little of everything.

 

[whiplash]

Not going to disagree with you because the poll asks; "Which one of the following would 'you' choose for the best audio quality?"

Not the best or worst because, not only is that subjective, but relies on one's particular economic situation etc. Someone like myself for instance, could not immediately justify the cost of an integrated amp with minimal features compared to an AVR. Such as, multiple pre-outs for additional amps for a subwoofer or other speakers. Meanwhile, I have a pretty decently (actually it's awesome)performing sound system. I can then add higher performing audio amplifiers as time/finances allows if need be without buying a preamp and still be pretty darn close to top notch sound quality to where the better speakers start to null the audible differences of an integrated amp. I have 3 different integrated amps. If I really wanted to pick the fly-poop from the ointment, I could drive myself nuts doing side-by-side comparisons of all the equipment I own and still end up second guessing everything.


Half the reason these discussions come up is not because someone's well selected sound system is actually lacking, as much as someone telling them it might be. Still, the most unanimous, experienced opinion mentioned here and elsewhere is going to favor better speakers as a sure bet. If your system already sounds awesome, with an AVR, dedicated stereo amp, integrated or otherwise, what real audible difference does it make?

Still, you can't say outright that someone with an AVR cannot match an integrated amp. Just the difference in their listening space alone, their experience with EQ can make all the difference in the world from their house to yours. For all you know, I could be surpassing your system just for the having the right mix of a little of everything.

Yes dude, you rock, you can can surpassing my system. I'm sure about that You are funny anyway, you want to compare Audissey with RoomPerfect? Hahaha, what a joke. Dude, before start writing again, you must try it and after to come here and write. You must "see" the difference between RoomPerfect On(focus or global) and Off with what speakers you want(Sure will be difference between more expensive speakers and cheap speakers). You SIMPLY CAN'T speak about something that you don't know.

If you are glad with your AVR? That's a good think. Better for you, I wasn't with mine. And that's all. I find my happiness now and I'm glad too. But just to clarify one thing, even an $600-800 integrate amp will blow up an AVR like my Marantz SR6011. First, Audissey have 4 mode: Reference which Marantz say is good for movies, Flat which Marantz say is good for small rooms, L/R bypass and Off.
Not one of this Marantz say is good for stereo. So dude, get lost with this kind of AVR. And yes, I said, AVR like Anthem MRX 7xx/1xxx or Primare will be a good choice for stereo, but this kind of AVR is more than $3500-4000.

 

[MrBoat]

Yes dude, you rock, you can can surpassing my system. I'm sure about that You are funny anyway, you want to compare Audissey with RoomPerfect? Hahaha, what a joke. Dude, before start writing again, you must try it and after to come here and write. You must "see" the difference between RoomPerfect On(focus or global) and Off with what speakers you want(Sure will be difference between more expensive speakers and cheap speakers). You SIMPLY CAN'T speak about something that you don't know.

If you are glad with your AVR? That's a good think. Better for you, I wasn't with mine. And that's all. I find my happiness now and I'm glad too. But just to clarify one thing, even an $600-800 integrate amp will blow up an AVR like my Marantz SR6011. First, Audissey have 4 mode: Reference which Marantz say is good for movies, Flat which Marantz say is good for small rooms, L/R bypass and Off.
Not one of this Marantz say is good for stereo. So dude, get lost with this kind of AVR. And yes, I said, AVR like Anthem MRX 7xx/1xxx or Primare will be a good choice for stereo, but this kind of AVR is more than $3500-4000.

I don't use audissey, or room perfect. I use 40 years of personal experience and EQ by ear. I am just using the AVR for the amplifiers and the connectivity options and as a preamp and run it pure direct most days. Letting a computer decide for me would take all of the fun out of music. I can even correct speakers that are too bright, or too dark, even if slightly. Ever been at a live show and watched the guitarist walk over and tune his amp or turn it up or down a little? I do that for him sometimes if I think he was a little too up front or too laid back. I used to go see Ozzy sometimes just to hear Randy Rhodes play. Sometimes I just want to hear Randy Rhodes more on the solo bits. Sometimes it's an epic drum or piano intro I want to accentuate. A computer cannot possibly know this.

And yes, it is entirely possible that my room is perfect, or even forgiving with audio, just by luck. Some people's rooms are taking every bit of room correction by their equipment just to have it hanging by a thread, sound wise, as the best, or only possible choice.

Again, I'm not saying which is better or worse. Just what is best for me as per the query of this thread. I just need the right amount of amplification and very low distortion. The rest I can take care of myself. It's been true with every amp I have had in here over the years.

The amount of charlatanism involved with consumer audio (and everything else) these days will have you believe that you need their equipment to experience perfect sound, or that they know your ears or room better than you do. These things were made for people who either don't want to, or have enough time to learn where their music is coming from, or what causes it to sound certain ways. As it stands now, I am glad I was so involved in my youth in which to learn it and that everything wasn't done for us. Or else I'd be on here looking for different and expensive ways to buy my way out of my sound problems. Now I can take the things that people discard and make it work like it never has before.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But just to clarify one thing, even an $600-800 integrate amp will blow up an AVR like my Marantz SR6011.

Perhaps the Integrate Amp will blow up your AVR. But that doesn't mean it will blow up anyone else's AVR.

People can try and see for themselves.

I've owned four Integrated Amps ($1,500 - $2000 each) and four Class-A Analog Stereo Preamps ($1,500 each) in the past. None of them blow any of my AVRs up.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes dude, you rock, you can can surpassing my system. I'm sure about that You are funny anyway, you want to compare Audissey with RoomPerfect? Hahaha, what a joke. Dude, before start writing again, you must try it and after to come here and write. You must "see" the difference between RoomPerfect On(focus or global) and Off with what speakers you want(Sure will be difference between more expensive speakers and cheap speakers). You SIMPLY CAN'T speak about something that you don't know.

If you are glad with your AVR? That's a good think. Better for you, I wasn't with mine. And that's all. I find my happiness now and I'm glad too. But just to clarify one thing, even an $600-800 integrate amp will blow up an AVR like my Marantz SR6011. First, Audissey have 4 mode: Reference which Marantz say is good for movies, Flat which Marantz say is good for small rooms, L/R bypass and Off.
Not one of this Marantz say is good for stereo. So dude, get lost with this kind of AVR. And yes, I said, AVR like Anthem MRX 7xx/1xxx or Primare will be a good choice for stereo, but this kind of AVR is more than $3500-4000.

LOL you crack me up.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't use audissey, or room perfect. I use 40 years of personal experience and EQ by ear.

I use Audyssey BYPASS + Dynamic EQ. So I don't use Audyssey or any other room EQ either. I do use Dynamic EQ to boost the bass to my preference.

So I agree that ultimately it's about your personal preference.

We can try everything and go with what's best at the end of the day.

 

[RichB]

Processors and amps don't normally blow anything up.
If they were made by Samsung, that's another matter.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

LOL you crack me up.

I bet you are not the only one.

 

[MrBoat]

I bet you are not the only one.

lol. . .MrBoat did not say that.

 

[PENG]

Sorry Mrboat, no idea how I messed that up..fixed now.

 

[MrBoat]

Sorry Mrboat, no idea how I messed that up..fixed now.

It does it to me sometimes too. No worries.

 

[MrBoat]

Per this thread, I am listening to my system and trying to imagine something I would improve with it or what equipment I would implement in which to do so. So far, the only thing I can come up with is. . . .a better chair. My chair sucks.

 

[lovinthehd]

Per this thread, I am listening to my system and trying to imagine something I would improve with it or what equipment I would implement in which to do so. So far, the only thing I can come up with is. . . .a better chair. My chair sucks.

How about some more recordings to listen to? Best primary use of audio funds....altho a good comfy seat is a definite plus.

 

[MrBoat]

How about some more recordings to listen to? Best primary use of audio funds....altho a good comfy seat is a definite plus.

Been stuck on Larry Carlton the last few days. Ordered a couple of his CD's and then found more. Some good bass in there as well. I am finding a lot of good music since the new speakers. Almost have enough components to build a nice system for my bedroom. Been buying quite a few cd's lately.

 

[whiplash]

I don't use audissey, or room perfect. I use 40 years of personal experience and EQ by ear. I am just using the AVR for the amplifiers and the connectivity options and as a preamp and run it pure direct most days. Letting a computer decide for me would take all of the fun out of music. I can even correct speakers that are too bright, or too dark, even if slightly. Ever been at a live show and watched the guitarist walk over and tune his amp or turn it up or down a little? I do that for him sometimes if I think he was a little too up front or too laid back. I used to go see Ozzy sometimes just to hear Randy Rhodes play. Sometimes I just want to hear Randy Rhodes more on the solo bits. Sometimes it's an epic drum or piano intro I want to accentuate. A computer cannot possibly know this.

And yes, it is entirely possible that my room is perfect, or even forgiving with audio, just by luck. Some people's rooms are taking every bit of room correction by their equipment just to have it hanging by a thread, sound wise, as the best, or only possible choice.

Again, I'm not saying which is better or worse. Just what is best for me as per the query of this thread. I just need the right amount of amplification and very low distortion. The rest I can take care of myself. It's been true with every amp I have had in here over the years.

The amount of charlatanism involved with consumer audio (and everything else) these days will have you believe that you need their equipment to experience perfect sound, or that they know your ears or room better than you do. These things were made for people who either don't want to, or have enough time to learn where their music is coming from, or what causes it to sound certain ways. As it stands now, I am glad I was so involved in my youth in which to learn it and that everything wasn't done for us. Or else I'd be on here looking for different and expensive ways to buy my way out of my sound problems. Now I can take the things that people discard and make it work like it never has before.

Well dude, nice for you if you have 40 years of experience. A very few people have that experience in audio and a lot of peoples want to have "a good sound", so for that you need help when you don't have experience in audio, a help like RoomPerfect. And it's a VERY BIG difference between RoomPerfect On and Off, so I'm glad. Like I said, I don't have experience in audio, I study for years "how to anaesthetised people". So for that I need help in audio

I didn't come here to argue with people with experience who can manage the EQ by him self. But in the same time I can't admit opinions where people want to say an AVR can make the job like an integrate amp. I had listened a lots of AVR and integrate amp, with different price and always the integrate amp had better sound quality. Ah, one with experience can do the settings to have a better sound quality for stereo with an AVR, that for sure or even to make to sound like some cheap integrate amp, here I don't talk about +$3500 AVR, I talk about AVRs like mine, $1500-2000.
And to clarify, with the integrate amp i have much more "relief" in my music, much more dynamics, a better clarity between the instruments, like I told ya already, in the moment where the drummer "come out" in the Hey you - Pink Floyed, i had the impression he was in front of me, which with the SR6011 wasn't the same, with the Marantz it's VERY FLAT sound.

Don't forgot a think, VERY FEW(this one who have this job can do it, I mean you must study for years and years like others study medicine or engineering to what you want) people can manage a audio system like you can or others like you. So for them a think like RoomPerfect it's something amazing.

It's very sad when most of people here want "to take away" the happiness of someone saying he did a very bad choice. But the EGO is at very high level I see, here people don't want to help being impartial, they just want to impose their point of view, otherwise is not ok. Maybe in the future you can see the point of the people what they ask and give a answer to that not what you like to do.

 

[ski2xblack]

Mr. Whiplash, I'm so sorry you cannot abide an opinion that differs with your admittedly quite limited audio experience. But there is hope for you. You have studied years to become an anesthesiologist. Do you give the dehydrated 80 pound grandmother the same amount of versed and fentanyl as you do the 300 pound narcotic and benzo abuser? No, you don't give two such patients the same dosages unless you wish to kill grandma.

Having low sensitivity speakers is akin to dosing the 300 pound narc and benzo addict when it comes to power; they need a lot. They may need a bit more than the average AVR can deliver. You may have experienced this sort of power mis-match first hand, but you're extrapolating from those few personal experiences to arrive at some broad, global claims that just aren't universally true. When comparing the various AVRs to stereo kit, did you employ any sort of bias controls, or were these simply sighted evaluations?

It's true, this is not the forum for audio homeopathy, or the place for true believers to get the validation they seek. We're not against you or trying to ruin your listening pleasure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't have experience in audio

Exactly. There is no substitute for EXPERIENCE, especially in this HOBBY.

We've all been there. We've all thought the same as you. And some of us still think the same as you, which is fine.

But many of us have changed our views over the MANY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE and many thousands of dollars later.

Maybe one day, you will think back and say, "Man, these guys were right."

And if you are a scientific person who believes in double-blind studies, then you can read all about the studies that compared amps and preamps. They conclude what many of us believe.

 

[whiplash]

Mr. Whiplash, I'm so sorry you cannot abide an opinion that differs with your admittedly quite limited audio experience. But there is hope for you. You have studied years to become an anesthesiologist. Do you give the dehydrated 80 pound grandmother the same amount of versed and fentanyl as you do the 300 pound narcotic and benzo abuser? No, you don't give two such patients the same dosages unless you wish to kill grandma.

Having low sensitivity speakers is akin to dosing the 300 pound narc and benzo addict when it comes to power; they need a lot. They may need a bit more than the average AVR can deliver. You may have experienced this sort of power mis-match first hand, but you're extrapolating from those few personal experiences to arrive at some broad, global claims that just aren't universally true. When comparing the various AVRs to stereo kit, did you employ any sort of bias controls, or were these simply sighted evaluations?

It's true, this is not the forum for audio homeopathy, or the place for true believers to get the validation they seek. We're not against you or trying to ruin your listening pleasure.

Well, it's very true the dose it's not the same for everyone, especially for the narcotics, they need something like for an "horse"

To be clear, I don't want to prove anything here. All what I want to say is that: with my DALI Opticon 6 speakers + Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 I have a sound which I adore! With the same speakers + Marantz SR6011 I wasn't satisfied about the sound. With both I made the same think, I calibrated them, Marantz with Audissey and Lyngdorf with RoomPerfect, like I told ya i don't have experience to do this manually.

Now, I really dont know what you all want to told me when the DIFFERENCE it's so huge. I can't say they have the same "sound" or even close, NO, it's a damn huge difference. Now i have "relief" sometimes I have the impression they band it's in front of me. And with relief I want to say the sound it's not anymore flat, you can easy to distinguish the different instruments which play in the same time. And, like I said, I don't have experience, but it's hard for me to believe even with any setup you will make to my AVR the sound will can be close like is with my integrate amp.

And like I said weeks ago, if you search on this site the review of Anthem MRX520,720 and 1120 you will see the guy said just 720 and 1120 it's for immersive audio.