Best $2000 pre amp / dac

[RichB]

Archimago has done some interesting measurement using MQA. MAQ appears to do what it says, folding extended frequencies into a smaller file and restoring them. His tests show this to be about 70 DB down at frequencies above 20kHz.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/02/comparison-hardware-decoded-mqa-using.html

It's hard to believe that makes a meaningful difference but I suppose it could alter the filtering. Personally, it looks mostly like a way to make money.

There are no announcements from Oppo for MQA support but the Sonica DAC app does has native Tidal support.

- Rich

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I recently got a trial tidal subscription. I have to say that I consider their collection is nice, but nowhere as complete as Spotify is. I can't say i could hear difference between cd and tidal,so it's as should be, but I probably will let it expire without renewing it. I appreciate much more discovery of rare music then higher quality recordings of stuff i know well.

 

[bsf]

I use tidal and enjoy it very much

 

[PENG]

I have compared the two using an XLR switch with the XMC-1 providing volume control and J River zones to simultaneously stream to the USB DAC inputs.

If a Headphone amp is not required, then the Sonica DAC is less expensive and has a better feature set. At this point, it is not as convenient to use because there is no IR remote. This may change but I have no official statement on this from Oppo.

I find the Sonica DAC brighter resolving more detail but as a result, the balance is different with the HA-1 slightly fuller. This comes down to preference, of course. They sound more alike than different but they are different.

- Rich

Thanks, if the Sonica is even almost as good as the HA-1 I will be happy. They have the better DAC chip but overall I think the HA-1 probably will still win it hometheaterhifi put it through their usual battery of tests and measurements. I am thinking off pairing with my A21 and R900 that can use a little brightness anyway, and I don't need headphone amp for that system.

 

[bsf]

Would I be pissing money away on the macintosh D150???

 

[Irvrobinson]

Would I be pissing money away on the macintosh D150???

That is something only you can judge. I've already told you what I think.

 

[sterling shoote]

Consider a multi-channel pre/pro. Stereo is not the end all experience. Just listen to Celine Dion singing My Heart Will Go On in stereo, then in 5.1 from Disney's Beauty And The Beast Blu-ray. Of course you can enjoy stereo too; but, you will have the opportunity to enjoy what stereo can not deliver.

 

[jinjuku]

Why is it stereophool? It allows you to stream a large file.

Plus it doesn't cost you anything as long as your DAC can decode it (many already do). If the DAC can't decode it, no problem - you will get the standard CD quality file (FLAC).

FLAC can be any quality: 16/44.1, 24/96, 24/192. Several services will or already do stream FLAC.
Remember that FLAC is true lossless where MQA isn't.

MQA doesn't solve any end user problems. Next generation Cell Data (5G) will make it a moot point. Current broadband certainly makes it a moot point.

Archimago just did the write up on MQA that Stereophile should have done.


http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/01/comparison-tidal-mqa-music-high.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/02/comparison-hardware-decoded-mqa-using.html

 

[jinjuku]

I know it's been mentioned but the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 is a really good piece of gear and I own one.

 

[jinjuku]

There are no announcements from Oppo for MQA support but the Sonica DAC app does has native Tidal support.

- Rich

Really immaterial at this point. MQA can totally be done in software and streamed as PCM.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

FLAC can be any quality: 16/44.1, 24/96, 24/192. Several services will or already do stream FLAC.
Remember that FLAC is true lossless where MQA isn't.

MQA doesn't solve any end user problems. Next generation Cell Data (5G) will make it a moot point. Current broadband certainly makes it a moot point.

Archimago just did the write up on MQA that Stereophile should have done.


http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/01/comparison-tidal-mqa-music-high.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/02/comparison-hardware-decoded-mqa-using.html

Very in-depth analysis, but conclusion is mainly same as I came into before using educated guess:
here (see tl;dr note)
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/best-2000-pre-amp-dac.106773/#post-1174814
Why not just used existing widely supported flac format. The hassle and complications are already not worth the benefits, even without advanced in mobile communications.

 

[jinjuku]

Very in-depth analysis, but conclusion is mainly same as I came into before using educated guess:
here (see tl;dr note)
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/best-2000-pre-amp-dac.106773/#post-1174814
Why not just used existing widely supported flac format. The hassle and complications are already not worth the benefits, even without advanced in mobile communications.

The labels seem to think they can put part of the Djinn back in the bottle. I have to hand it to Bob Stuart. He can sell ice to Eskimos.

 

[RichB]

Really immaterial at this point. MQA can totally be done in software and streamed as PCM.

At every step of the process MQA preserves the licensing...er/um fidelity.
I don't use Tidal so there is very little interest. I would never purchase and MQA encoded recording.

- Rich

 

[<eargiant]

FLAC can be any quality: 16/44.1, 24/96, 24/192. Several services will or already do stream FLAC.
Remember that FLAC is true lossless where MQA isn't.

It's possible you're confused, I'm not talking about streaming files from one device to another, I'm talking about streaming from a content provider into my home.

I signed up with Tidal the very first day it became available in the States. I also have ultra high speed broadband. I've been streaming FLAC files for a while but up until now they've only come in at 16/44.

Which one of those services you mention streams a bit rate higher than 16/44 into your home? As of today, I don't know of any.

MQA is not a CODEC so I don't understand what you mean when you say it is not "true lossless". At the moment, it's the only way for me to get a true lossless stream at a bit-rate higher than 16/44 delivered to my home. Roon and several DACs will confirm that you are receiving and playing the full lossless 24/96 or 24/192 file.

 

[RichB]

^

MQA is not a CODEC so I don't understand what you mean when you say it is not "true lossless". At the moment, it's the only way for me to get a true lossless stream at a bit-rate higher than 16/44 delivered to my home. Roon and several DACs will confirm that you are receiving and playing the full lossless 24/96 or 24/192 file.

Here is some interesting reading from Benchmark:
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa

MQA is NOT Lossless
Note that the original 24-bit signal is never recovered. MQA does not losslessly preserve the original 24-bit signal. For this reason MQA is not truly a lossless system. At best, the MQA system losslessly conveys 17-bits at 96 kHz. Unfortunately this very complicated process is less efficient than lossless FLAC compression of the 17-bit file. It is also only slightly smaller than a FLAC version of the original 24-bit signal. MQA does not make it easier to stream 96 kHz files. With a 96 kHz 18-bit input, FLAC compressed MQA requires higher data rates than FLAC compressed PCM while delivering lower quality than 18-bit losslessly compressed PCM. MQA also requires special mastering and special playback hardware. Conventional FLAC compression requires neither.

Here are some measurements by Miska (Computer Audiophile):

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/miska/some-analysis-and-comparison-mqa-encoded-flac-vs-normal-optimized-hires-flac-674/

But how does 44.1/24 MQA encoded FLAC with size of 16 MB, decoded as normal file without MQA capability look like?


Whoops, there's significantly less than 16-bit worth of resolution left, with MQA data appearing as high frequency noise. Worse than RedBook format FLAC.


Next, I'm curious how big the file would be, if we optimally encode this content as FLAC? So we need 60 kHz of bandwidth and 18-bit worth of resolution.

- Rich

 

[<eargiant]

Has anyone on this thread (other than me) actually heard a Tidal Masters track fed through Roon (or similar player) into an MQA capable DAC?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just get a Denon 4520 for $1400 and call it a day. It has a great Burr-Brown PCM-1795 DAC and USB.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4520CI-Networking-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0092KZCKC/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488560627&sr=1-13&keywords=Denon+avr

Unless you can get a mint used Denon AVR-5308CI (the one I have stored away in my closet ), which has the totally awesome Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DAC, which is the same DAC in the $7,500 Denon AVP-ADHDCI.

 

[PENG]

Just get a Denon 4520 for $1400 and call it a day. It has a great Burr-Brown PCM-1795 DAC and USB.

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4520CI-Networking-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0092KZCKC/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488560627&sr=1-13&keywords=Denon+avr

Unless you can get a mint used Denon AVR-5308CI (the one I have stored away in my closet ), which has the totally awesome Burr-Brown PCM-1796 DAC, which is the same DAC in the $7,500 Denon AVP-ADHDCI.

For $7500, your AVP should have the top Burr Brown 1792, the 5308 probably have the 1796, same as the one in my DVD3910.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For $7500, your AVP should have the top Burr Brown 1792, the 5308 probably have the 1796, same as the one in my DVD3910.

I've lost track of all these DAC numbers.

 

[PENG]

I've lost track of all these DAC numbers.

Actually my assumption may be wrong because Gene's review mentioned the 1796 too. He did described it as the "very best" 1796, yet the flag ship Burr Brown DAC is in fact the PCM1792 and DSD1792, they are several times the price of the 1796.

The top line universal player at the time, the DVD5910, definitely has the 1792 on board but apparently not their top line AVP. Very strange!