Yamaha RX-A860 AVENTAGE 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

[gene]

There's a lot to like about the Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A860 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X AV receiver. It's packed with excellent, easy to use networking features, especially MusicCAST which allows you to manage all of your music via mobile or from your PC. It supports the latest in immersive audio formats, and has a wonderful easy to use GUI and mobile App. However, the RX-A860 does fall short in some key performance areas such as power delivery that gives us some reservations on how best to use this product.

Read our review and check out our test report and recommendations to find out more.

Read: Yamaha RX-A860 AVENTAGE 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

 

[gene]

 

[shadyJ]

Its a shame about the preamp output voltage. I have had to deal with equipment with middling line level output, and its tiresome to try to compensate with everything else in the gain structure of the system. Almost better to just get a DAC and use that to send the signal to the amplifiers.

 

[Verdinut]

Low preamp-out voltage and meagre all channel power performance. That's why I prefer the D & M products.
I think Yamaha should rather concentrate on motorcycles, their first marketed products!

 

[3db]

Low preamp-out voltage and meagre all channel power performance. That's why I prefer the D & M products.
I think Yamaha should rather concentrate on motorcycles, their first marketed products!

I think you should have an understanding of what all channels power performance implies and how each manufacturer implements it before issuing dumb comments about what Yamaha should stick.

 

[PENG]

Low preamp-out voltage and meagre all channel power performance. That's why I prefer the D & M products.
I think Yamaha should rather concentrate on motorcycles, their first marketed products!

I think you have to consider the price point. The 860 is at the entry level of Yamaha AVR that comes with preout. If Gene runs the same tests on a Denon AVR-3300 or Marantz SR5011, he may get the same results, due to manufacturers try to save literally $1 or 2 by going with the cheapest OPA, same goes for the DAC, they are cheap but there are cheaper ones.

That's why I always recommend the second level (that offers preouts) such as the AVR-4XXX, SR60XX and RX-A10X0 and up.

According to the manual:
RX-A860 pre out:1V/1.2kohm, Max 1.6V
RX-A1060 Pre out: 1V/470 ohm, Max. 2.0V or more

I like the fact that they do give a little more information, that is, including the maximum and the load impedance for the nominal. Based on Gene's findings, the specs seems like a honest one.

 

[3db]

There's a lot to like about the Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A860 7.2CH Atmos/DTS:X AV receiver. It's packed with excellent, easy to use networking features, especially MusicCAST which allows you to manage all of your music via mobile or from your PC. It supports the latest in immersive audio formats, and has a wonderful easy to use GUI and mobile App. However, the RX-A860 does fall short in some key performance areas such as power delivery that gives us some reservations on how best to use this product.

Read our review and check out our test report and recommendations to find out more.

Read: Yamaha RX-A860 AVENTAGE 7.2 Atmos/DTS:X A/V Receiver Review

It looks like Yamaha skimped on this model trying to cram too much into at the expense of a robust power supply and good pre-amp stage. Thats unfortunate as their top 3 AVRs in their line up are nice and robust. I find it strange that people still get hung up on the ACD test not realizing that ACD is more of a reflection of the sensitivity of the protection circuit employed by the manufacturer instead of actully delivering power. Maybe this model is actually hampered because of the smaller transformer but their top 3 models, the RX-V7 that you own(ed) could have pushed far more power than the ACD revealed.

 

[shadyJ]

I think you should have an understanding of what all channels power performance implies and how each manufacturer implements it before issuing dumb comments about what Yamaha should stick.

I think he has a point about the all channel performance, it's just not that great. 35 watts at 8 Ohms for five channels isn't amazing, and it would dip a bit more with a 7 channels certainly. However it is not as bad as many people would believe. A couple watts is all most speakers need to get near 90 dB or the high 80 dB area. Better preamps would have been nice though. I am glad Gene is doing this testing, so at least someone somewhere is!

 

[PENG]

I think he has a point about the all channel performance, it's just not that great. 35 watts at 8 Ohms for five channels isn't amazing, and it would dip a bit more with a 7 channels certainly. However it is not as bad as many people would believe. A couple watts is all most speakers need to get near 90 dB or the high 80 dB area. Better preamps would have been nice though. I am glad Gene is doing this testing, so at least someone somewhere is!

It would be nice if we know the load impedance in Gene's Pre out test. The Yamaha may do better with a power amp that has very high input impedance.

 

[3db]

I think he has a point about the all channel performance, it's just not that great. 35 watts at 8 Ohms for five channels isn't amazing, and it would dip a bit more with a 7 channels certainly. However it is not as bad as many people would believe. A couple watts is all most speakers need to get near 90 dB or the high 80 dB area. Better preamps would have been nice though. I am glad Gene is doing this testing, so at least someone somewhere is!

On this model only but historically, Yamaha has scored low on ACD including their 3 top models. All this indicates is Yamaha's decision to make the protection circuitry more sensitive than others and really is NOT indicative of what they could really do if Yamaha wasn't so conservative in their power specs. On the two channel tests, Yamaha almost always came up on top of power delivery compared to that of equivalent models of other brands. This would indicate to me that Yamaha is being very conservative in their ACD limit settings

 

[PENG]

On this model only but historically, Yamaha has scored low on ACD including their 3 top models. All this indicates is Yamaha's decision to make the protection circuitry more sensitive than others and really is NOT indicative of what they could really do if Yamaha wasn't so conservative in their power specs. On the two channel tests, Yamaha almost always came up on top of power delivery compared to that of other brands.

Exactly my point, the 860 is 4th from the top, to be fair we should compare it with D&M's 3300 and 5011. With D&M you can just go by their specs in the manual because they will just say 1V or 1.2V.

 

[Verdinut]

It would be nice if we know the load impedance in Gene's Pre out test. The Yamaha may do better with a power amp that has very high input impedance.

The 860 doesn't compare with Marantz SR5009 which puts out 72.9 watts with 5 channels driven and 68.5 watts with the 7 channels driven at 0.1% distortion, from a review by Sound & Vision. I would think that the SR5010 and the SR5011 would bring similar results as I'm inclined to assume that they have the same amp modules.

With regard to the pre-outs voltage, I didn't see it mentioned in the owner's manual for my SR5010. I wrote to the D+M Group inquiring about it. Their customer service department replied with a vague answer:
"It varies between around 1.5 to 2v each device varies so in this case gains need to be properly adjusted on the external amp. So we do not have it as a set number."

I didn't know that they were using different devices for the preamps in the same receiver.
What a weird answer!

 

[Verdinut]

I think he has a point about the all channel performance, it's just not that great. 35 watts at 8 Ohms for five channels isn't amazing, and it would dip a bit more with a 7 channels certainly. However it is not as bad as many people would believe. A couple watts is all most speakers need to get near 90 dB or the high 80 dB area. Better preamps would have been nice though. I am glad Gene is doing this testing, so at least someone somewhere is!

Also, in the situation of action films or science fiction films, you often need more than a couple of watts. Don't forget that a 20 dB peak requires 100 times more power.

 

[3db]

The 860 doesn't compare with Marantz SR5009 which put out 72.9 watts with 5 channels driven and 68.5 watts with the 7 channels driven at 0.1% distortion, from a review by Sound & Vision. I would think that the SR5010 and the SR5011 would bring similar results as I'm inclined to assume that they have the same amp modules.

Meaningless .. It just means that Marantz is a little more liberal with their limiting circuits. How do the 2 channel tests compare?

 

[everettT]

Low preamp-out voltage and meagre all channel power performance. That's why I prefer the D & M products.
I think Yamaha should rather concentrate on motorcycles, their first marketed products!

FYI, Yamaha has been producing musical instrumens long before Gibson, Roland, fender, etc. World's oldest continuous manufacturer of them. You should read up on their history. When someone says Yamaha, motorcycles are not what pops into my head first.

 

[M Code]

How important is "all channels driven"...
In todays' HT systems where the satellites are 90dB efficient, and a powered subwoofer does the heavy low frequency lifting. Regarding pre-out levels, here one just needs to match up the AVR with a compatible component power amplifier with matching input specs...

Just my $0.02..

 

[Verdinut]

Meaningless .. It just means that Marantz is a little more liberal with their limiting circuits. How do the 2 channel tests compare?

The 2 channels tests are acceptable in either case.

 

[Verdinut]

FYI, Yamaha has been producing musical instrumens long before Gibson, Roland, fender, etc. World's oldest continuous manufacturer of them. You should read up on their history. When someone says Yamaha, motorcycles are not what pops into my head first.

Musical instruments and motorcycles are both different from electronic hi-fi equipment.

 

[everettT]

Musical instruments and motorcycles are both different from electronic hi-fi equipment.

Really? Thought they were all interchangeable I'm sure a company that makes some of the finest keyboards know a little about hifi.

 

[3db]

The 2 channels tests are acceptable in either case.

There you have it.. The ACD channels test is meaningless as it really only tests the sensitivity of the protection circuit, nothing more. Let it go. Its almost meaningless.