4K Upgrade has turned costly

[Halon451]

That's precisely why I'm wanting to give myself as much leeway as possible within my price point.

 

[lovinthehd]

Just keep your amp options open and get units with pre-outs then...just in case.

 

[sterling shoote]

I intend to enjoy 4k with hdmi audio/video output from an OPPO UDP-205 going to TV and letting the OPPO decode surround sound, sending analog audio down mixed to 5.1 to my Sony TA-P9000ES preamp. No expense beyond TV and player. I am satisfied with 5.1 until my pre/pro becomes unrepairable.

 

[rojo]

Nice thing about the Marantz mid-level AVRs is that they have pre amp outs. So if you find you don't have enough overhead with the built in power, you can add an Emotiva amp or similar later.

Also remember that typical listening happens around 1 watt. You're about 2.5 meters from your speakers. With typical speakers having an 87 dBwm sensitivity, at your seats at 1 watt they'll still have an SPL of (math) dB. I dunno. It'll be louder than talking volume in any case. At 16 watts they'll play 15dB louder, and still have enough overhead for an additional 7.5 dB higher peaks still within the AVR's rated 0.1% THD full range with all channels driven.

The point is, don't get too hung up on rated power. The difference in SPL between 100 watts and 120 isn't even audible. Shop for the other features you want -- Atmos, Bluetooth, needed connections, etc. Power should be at the bottom of your list.

If your Samsung TV does upscaling, then maybe turning upscaling off on your AVR could be a solution if there are problems switching between 1080i and 4K? Don't know. I don't have any 4K stuff.

 

[Halon451]

Okay what about this Yamaha? In the store now and I'm liking this one. The magnolia guy confirmed you guys' thoughts on the Elite line so I've moved on. I've read in multiple places that the Marantz AVR's sometimes have HDMI issues and I'm honestly just not feeling the Denon. Plus this ones currently on sale for $999 in store.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yamaha is one I've not tried yet. Higher reliability ratings and Yamaha actually goes thru hdmi certification whereas apparently D+M doesn't (IIRC what industry insider @mcode has posted).

 

[Halon451]

I'm reading good things on it.

 

[Halon451]

Welp last minute change and purchase made! Went with the Marantz SR6011 at just about $400 over my initial budget of $1k. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not concerned too much about the supposed HDMI issue - if it's a problem I can always take it back. Looking forward to getting it home and hooked up!

 

[Halon451]

Thank you to everyone who chimed in their thoughts. I'll be sure and post my reviews once it's set up and calibrated.

 

[lovinthehd]

Welp last minute change and purchase made! Went with the Marantz SR6011 at just about $400 over my initial budget of $1k. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not concerned too much about the supposed HDMI issue - if it's a problem I can always take it back. Looking forward to getting it home and hooked up!

LOL budgets often don't work out....congrats! If its an HDMI issue like ARC you bettah off just not using it...

 

[RichB]

Welp last minute change and purchase made! Went with the Marantz SR6011 at just about $400 over my initial budget of $1k. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm not concerned too much about the supposed HDMI issue - if it's a problem I can always take it back. Looking forward to getting it home and hooked up!

If interested in 4K UHD, I would also have recommended dual output player such as the Oppo 203 (I am biased). UHD (which your display may support) is 4K + P3 extended color-space + High dynamic range (brighter colors with better gradients).

With each major upgrade HDMI, generates issues. Currently, you need HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.0 so you should be good there. HDMI 2.0a is required to pass UHD.

With > 1080p new HDMI issues occur with cables. I recommend a UHD certified cable. Monoprice has inexpensive cables. I would consider trying certified cables before taking it back. A suitable HDMI cable should cost no more that $15 up to 20 feet. A 6' cable should be less than $10.

- Rich

 

[Halon451]

Okay so I've got it all connected and I have to say it sounds pretty amazing! I'm happy with it. However bc at this point since pretty much every component in my setup is new I'm having some trouble figuring out a few things that I have been used to seeing for the past several years.

1.) I had replaced my old PS3 which had served as my blu-ray player with an Xbox One S for 4k BD capability. I had always kept the PS3's audio output set to PCM, fed to my old AVR via HDMI, and the info button would always show when it was deciding Dolby True HD and DTS HD formats. The Xbox' audio output is confusing.. it offers either uncompressed 5.1, uncompressed 7.1 or bitstream out. The bitstream option allows you to only select DD or DTS. I've tried both and also scoured the web which has only confused me more. I assume the uncompressed formats are PCM. When I bring up the info screen on the Marantz while running uncompressed out from the Xbox it's showing only "multichannel input" and if the Xbox is set to bitstream the Marantz will show whatever format I am forced to select in the bitstream mode on the Xbox (either DD or DTS). How can I be sure that the audio coming through is the highest format available on the disc? If it's showing multichannel input does that mean it's deciding the True HD and/or DTS HD formats? Both sound pretty damn good but it's just a thing I used to be able to actually see and know for sure what format was making its way to my loudspeakers.

2.) I picked up the 4K version of Fury Road along with the Marantz today and popped that in. It flashes a warning message telling me that my TV doesn't support HDR, when in fact the Samsung UN65KS8000 is an HDR TV. I have the Xbox running through input 3 on the Marantz if that's helpful knowledge. What gives here? Is it a setting in need to enable in the Marantz?

3.) ARC for my smart hub functionality didn't work to return audio to the Marantz from the TV's streaming apps (Netflix for example). I ensured it was turned on in both the TV and on the AVR, but ended up just hooking up an optical cable to the Samsung's one connect box and setting it for PCM output to another input on the Marantz. That worked. The lack of audio via ARC may just be a cable issue, idk. it's supposedly a 4k capable HDMI cable as are all the ones I have in use with this setup.

Any ideas? I'll continue researching as well. But overall I'm very happy with the sound quality.

 

[Halon451]

Ok got the HDR thing figured out. Since I had to switch to the ARC channel for my AVR output I didn't realize the UHD color setting was not applicable to all inputs. Just had to turn it on for that input. Hah

 

[lovinthehd]

1/ Dolby True HD and DTS are lossless codecs, not uncompressed pcm until after they're decoded either by your player or the avr (if you want the avr to do it, then use bitstream). Shouldn't make a difference where it's decoded although it would perhaps give you a different list of available sound modes to play with. Multichannel indicated on the avr merely means it's getting the lpcm stream.

2/ Could be a video setting in the avr....you using an appropriate hdmi cable? Oops, see that addressed in number 3...

3/ You using the right ports for ARC? On my tv I must use hdmi port number 2 to do ARC.

 

[Halon451]

Yes on #3 on my TV the ARC is on the HDMI 4 connection. I have the AVR connected to that. I'll try a different cable that I know is capable and see what happens with it. For now I can get audio via optical and it's usually the gf watching Netflix and she doesn't care about all this. Long as she can hear it she's happy lol.

So, the #1 issue is perhaps the one I can't get figured out. I understand all of that however the Xbox's settings are confusing. If I set it to bitstream it forces me to choose either DD or DTS format. If bitstream is sending the signal to the AVR to decide those lossless codecs, then why is it making me pick either DD or DTS? This challenges everything I thought I knew about the difference between bitstream and PCM.

Oh another thing I just noticed. A distinct rattle during certain scenes from my left main. I ran the Audyssey cal and it had set the mains to crossover at 60Hz. I've always set the LPF to 80hZ for all speakers and never had a problem (the mains are technically small speakers). So I set everything to 80Hz but it's still there. Weird.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes on #3 on my TV the ARC is on the HDMI 4 connection. I have the AVR connected to that. I'll try a different cable that I know is capable and see what happens with it. For now I can get audio via optical and it's usually the gf watching Netflix and she doesn't care about all this. Long as she can hear it she's happy lol.

So, the #1 issue is perhaps the one I can't get figured out. I understand all of that however the Xbox's settings are confusing. If I set it to bitstream it forces me to choose either DD or DTS format. If bitstream is sending the signal to the AVR to decide those lossless codecs, then why is it making me pick either DD or DTS? This challenges everything I thought I knew about the difference between bitstream and PCM.

Oh another thing I just noticed. A distinct rattle during certain scenes from my left main. I ran the Audyssey cal and it had set the mains to crossover at 60Hz. I've always set the LPF to 80hZ for all speakers and never had a problem (the mains are technically small speakers). So I set everything to 80Hz but it's still there. Weird.

The optical carries the same audio HDMI ARC is capable of (limited to lossy codecs like DD or DTS 5.1, it wont do the lossless codecs) so you're not missing anything and it's already connected.....

I don't speak xbox any more, had the first one but not the last few. I'd think the xbox manual or forums would have an answer for you, I know I had to dig thru some of the PS3 stuff when I first set it up as some of the setup details aren't obvious from the GUI. Or choose one or the other and see if it limits something...

The rattle actually comes from the speaker? That's not good. Are you sure it isn't something in the room that's vibrating sympathetically? Might try some frequency sweeps, how I usually go about fixing rattles caused by my subs.

 

[Hi Ho]

The Xbox does not bitstream HD audio formats. This ability is in beta right now and should be released before too long but don't hold your breath as people have been complaining about this since the release of the original Xbox One. Set it to uncompressed 5.1. Setting it to bitstream will downgrade everything to standard Dolby Digital or DTS.

 

[Halon451]

Okay I guess I'm screwed until Microsoft maybe releases a firmware update to address that. The uncompressed 7.1 setting sounds pretty damn good so I can live with it for now.

Now, this speaker rattle.. I've NEVER had any issues with these speakers (older SVS SC-01 (M)'s as my left and right mains). I read elsewhere that the Audyssey calibration can sometimes try to boost bass in speakers beyond what they're designed for. Haven't tried switching the Audyssesy off yet as it's late and people are sleeping. Will try it tomorrow. IF I didn't somehow blow the speaker (I don't see how that would've happened), could it possibly be a faulty amp channel? I'll try switching the mains tomorrow as well - if it persists in the left channel I can pretty much narrow it down to that. It's just odd.. happens with any source I play too, even 2 channel music from my iPod via the Bluetooth input. Bracketing out the rattle I can safely say my music never sounded this good on the Pioneer.

On the pioneer I had the main crossover set for 80Hz, speaker size set to small (The MCACC cal on the Elite would try and set them to large and I would go back and switch them to small). Audyssey seems to want to set the mains at 60Hz, center at 80Hz, and the LFE crossover to 120Hz.. this is odd as well. That seems very high for a 12" ported box sub but it sounds good and the bass blends in well with the overall soundstage without any noticeable directionality. 80Hz sounded fantastic on the pioneer and never a rattle was heard from anything.

I sincerely hope the speaker didn't somehow go bad on me. I'll run these checks tomorrow and post results. Should at least be able to tell me if it's the speaker or the amp channel. In the meantime wondering if anyone else has experienced such an issue with a brand new AVR?

Aye life was so much simpler when it was 1080p...

 

[Hi Ho]

There is no difference in sound. The only difference is that the Xbox is decoding the audio and sending it to the receiver as uncompressed PCM. Do you have a 7.1 setup? If not then you need to set it to 5.1.

As far as the crossover settings go you can set them to 80hz. It won't hurt anything. the LFE channel should always be 120hz. Don't change that. It has nothing to do with the crossover from your speakers.

 

[Halon451]

Alright so it's not the receiver. Swapped the L and R speakers this morning and the rattling followed the speaker. So that's bad news as far as my speakers go.

I then put it on music listening mode (2.1) and dialed up Radioheads new album "Moon Shaped Pool". As that's when I noticed the rattling the most. Started with turning off the Audyssey reference EQ it had generated from the auto cal. I then went into the graphic EQ settings using the Marantz mobile app. I had noticed that the rattling was happening at around the mid-bass frequencies so I started dropping those out starting at about 125Hz to see if it went away. Found the most reduction at the below settings. Kinda lost a little of its punch audio wise but still full and rich enough in music mode and checking other sources now. Also set all crossover points to 80Hz. So I basically just neglected all the auto cal settings entirely lol.

Either way I've got a faulty speaker on my hands that I never knew about until I fed it stronger audio. So this discussion is likely going to move to the soeakers section. I know SVS has long discontinued my model but I'll call them anyway, see what they say. They were always a pleasure to deal with in the past and I hope they still are.