Klipsch KF-28 & KC-25 to Klipsch RP-280F & RP-450C. Decent upgrade or more of a lateral move?

[yippiechicken]

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

I currently have Klipsch KF-28's for my L&R speakers and a KC-25 as my center. Surrounds and rear surrounds are rbh A-815L in ceiling. Have a new HSU VTF 15H MK2 sub. Running everything through a Pioneer SC-1223 receiver.

The sound of the Klipsch speakers seems to suit me. Not exactly sure why, I just like the way they sound. It seems like my old ears hear a lot more detail listening to the Klipsch speakers. My wife and I use the room for probably about 80-90% movies, the rest gaming (me) and music.

I've been thinking about looking in to upgrading my speakers and was wondering if the RP-280F's and RP-450C would be a decent upgrade or more of a lateral move?

I live in Billings, MT so you can imagine how few choices we have to go and listen to a bunch of different speakers.

Anyway, all input is appreciated!

 

[shadyJ]

I would expect the RPs to be better, but not a bit enough step up to really be worth the trouble. I would save up for something better than the RP series. Maybe the RF-7 IIs.

 

[yippiechicken]

I would expect the RPs to be better, but not a bit enough step up to really be worth the trouble. I would save up for something better than the RP series. Maybe the RF-7 IIs.

Thanks Shady.

That's what I was actually kind of thinking. Do you think it would be worth upgrading the Icon center to the RP center? I've always felt the Icon center was the weakest link.

 

[speakerman39]

Thanks Shady.

That's what I was actually kind of thinking. Do you think it would be worth upgrading the Icon center to the RP center? I've always felt the Icon center was the weakest link.

Not sure on the center, but the RP Series is said to have tamed some of the overly brightness many say about Klipsch. When I heard some Klipsch speakers back over 10-years ago I noticed the "brightness" many proclaim. As such, I concluded at that time that they were NOT for me.

About 5-months ago or so I got to hear some PR-150's I think was the model #. Must admit I was very impressed. Klipsch is headed in the right direction inmho. BTW, nice setup. Seen your pic on another thread. Looks real good!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks Shady.

That's what I was actually kind of thinking. Do you think it would be worth upgrading the Icon center to the RP center? I've always felt the Icon center was the weakest link.

I wouldn't want either center speaker. I try to go more into this later, but I have to run for now.

 

[hextall27]

I recently upgraded from the KC-25 center channel to the RP-450c. The difference is night and day. I never realized how much sound wise I was missing out on. I couldn't be happier. I'll be hooking up my new Denon av-r4200 receiver in a few days. Can't wait too hear it then

 

[yippiechicken]

Not sure on the center, but the RP Series is said to have tamed some of the overly brightness many say about Klipsch. When I heard some Klipsch speakers back over 10-years ago I noticed the "brightness" many proclaim. As such, I concluded at that time that they were NOT for me.

About 5-months ago or so I got to hear some PR-150's I think was the model #. Must admit I was very impressed. Klipsch is headed in the right direction inmho. BTW, nice setup. Seen your pic on another thread. Looks real good!

Cheers,

Phil

Thanks for the input!

We've been working on finishing the room (the whole basement actually) off and on for a couple of years now as time allows and we're VERY close to having it done. Well, as done as possible with this hobby. My wife, son and I have done about 90% of the work ourselves.

When I get a little free time, I am planning on taking some updated photos and posting them in the gallery.

 

[yippiechicken]

I wouldn't want either center speaker. I try to go more into this later, but I have to run for now.

Thank you! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[yippiechicken]

I recently upgraded from the KC-25 center channel to the RP-450c. The difference is night and day. I never realized how much sound wise I was missing out on. I couldn't be happier. I'll be hooking up my new Denon av-r4200 receiver in a few days. Can't wait too hear it then

Yeah, although not horrible by any means and certainly better than what I had before, I've always thought the KC-25 was/is the weakest link, especially since I got my new sub.

What other speakers are you using, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[shadyJ]

Thank you! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

The problem is the off-axis response with these type of designs (called horizontal MTMs meaning midwoofer-tweeter-midwoofer). The dispersion pattern off-axis is always pretty bad; this means the sound projected from the speaker to the sides of its direct forward path will be badly inaccurate. The problem with that is much of what you hear in-room is reflected sound; sound reflected from all angles of the speaker's emission. So a lot of the sound you hear is that messed-up sound from indirect angles of the speaker. This is an especially bad characteristic from a center speaker because most dialogue is mixed to the center, so you can often have problems with dialogue intelligibility. A simple bookshelf speaker in normal upright orientation is vastly better as a center speaker in this respect.

Now you might ask why then do speaker manufacturers use such a poor design? The answer is convenience; these horizontal center speakers can fit in an entertainment center's shelving arrangement more easily. The problems of sound quality is simply shrugged off since it isn't usually top of a consumer's priority list when speaker shopping.

 

[yippiechicken]

The problem is the off-axis response with these type of designs (called horizontal MTMs meaning midwoofer-tweeter-midwoofer). The dispersion pattern off-axis is always pretty bad; this means the sound projected from the speaker to the sides of its direct forward path will be badly inaccurate. The problem with that is much of what you hear in-room is reflected sound; sound reflected from all angles of the speaker's emission. So a lot of the sound you hear is that messed-up sound from indirect angles of the speaker. This is an especially bad characteristic from a center speaker because most dialogue is mixed to the center, so you can often have problems with dialogue intelligibility. A simple bookshelf speaker in normal upright orientation is vastly better as a center speaker in this respect.

Now you might ask why then do speaker manufacturers use such a poor design? The answer is convenience; these horizontal center speakers can fit in an entertainment center's shelving arrangement more easily. The problems of sound quality is simply shrugged off since it isn't usually top of a consumer's priority list when speaker shopping.

Thanks shadyJ.

If I decided to go with a bookshelf speaker for the center, I could probably make it work by getting a separate stand for it or by getting a different equipment rack, which is do-able. As you can see from the photo below, there's not much room between the existing center and the bottom of the screen. In fact, there's a little less room now as I've moved the Kinect sensor off the top of the speaker and lowered the screen a little more since this photo was taken. My new 15H MK2 sub has also taken the place of the one in the photo so space is tighter also.

Would I want to stick with a Klipsch bookshelf speaker to match (sound wise) my L&R fronts, or does that matter? Do you have any suggestions if I decide to go that route? Is this something the new Hsu CCB-8 would work well for? Getting tired of my questions yet?

 

[shadyJ]

I think if you prefer the Klipsch sound then a Klipsch bookshelf speaker might be the best thing for you. The Hsu CCB-8 looks awfully promising though, but it will likely be a bit more neutral then your Klipsch speakers, so maybe not the type of sound you would prefer over Klipsch. If your left and right fronts are going to be Klipsch, so should the center speaker; you want the front stage to be timbre matched, so it should be from the same product line. If you are thinking about trying a different sound, maybe a Hsu CCB-8 set is the ticket since that design bodes very well for a cohesive sound everywhere in-room. By the way, the CCB-8 has been delayed a bit, so they might not be available in late January as the product page predicts.

If you want a substantial upgrade within the Klipsch family, try to get three of these while they are in stock (this product line is being clearanced). It has very good off-axis response and should have an extremely good dynamic range for a bookshelf speaker. I would expect it to be much better than your present speakers. Right now it is on sale for a great price.

 

[yippiechicken]

I think if you prefer the Klipsch sound then a Klipsch bookshelf speaker might be the best thing for you. The Hsu CCB-8 looks awfully promising though, but it will likely be a bit more neutral then your Klipsch speakers, so maybe not the type of sound you would prefer over Klipsch. If your left and right fronts are going to be Klipsch, so should the center speaker; you want the front stage to be timbre matched, so it should be from the same product line. If you are thinking about trying a different sound, maybe a Hsu CCB-8 set is the ticket since that design bodes very well for a cohesive sound everywhere in-room. By the way, the CCB-8 has been delayed a bit, so they might not be available in late January as the product page predicts.

If you want a substantial upgrade within the Klipsch family, try to get three of these while they are in stock (this product line is being clearanced). It has very good off-axis response and should have an extremely good dynamic range for a bookshelf speaker. I would expect it to be much better than your present speakers. Right now it is on sale for a great price.

Do you think my Pioneer SC-1223 would power those speakers ok?

 

[hextall27]

Yeah, although not horrible by any means and certainly better than what I had before, I've always thought the KC-25 was/is the weakest link, especially since I got my new sub.

What other speakers are you using, if you don't mind me asking?

I have the Klipsch r-28's for the front and rb-61's for the rears. I like the sound and clarity!!

 

[shadyJ]

Do you think my Pioneer SC-1223 would power those speakers ok?

The Pioneer would power them just fine. Any AVR will do with these speakers since they are not a demanding electrical load.

 

[yippiechicken]

I have the Klipsch r-28's for the front and rb-61's for the rears. I like the sound and clarity!!

Thanks! Nice to hear feedback from someone who has a similar setup as I do.

Just to clarify, was the center channel (KC-25) the only speaker you changed?

 

[hextall27]

Thanks! Nice to hear feedback from someone who has a similar setup as I do.

Just to clarify, was the center channel (KC-25) the only speaker you changed?

Yes I kept the fronts and rears since I got them for Christmas last year. The center channel was a weak link. Sounds fantastic now. My Klipsch RS-115W sub will be here tomorrow

 

[yippiechicken]

Yes I kept the fronts and rears since I got them for Christmas last year. The center channel was a weak link. Sounds fantastic now. My Klipsch RS-115W sub will be here tomorrow

Nice!

I bet you're excited for your new sub. I was VERY close to getting that same exact sub. I had in narrowed down to the R115SW and a Hsu sub, the VTF 15H MK2 and ended up going with the Hsu model. It was a tough decision to make because they both reviewed so well.

I don't know what sub you are replacing (or if you have one at all) but I think you'll be amazed at the difference a great sub can make! I've had mine for a little over a month and am still shocked at the difference it makes every time we watch a movie.

One suggestion, watch "Interstellar" once you get the sub set up and dialed in. I promise you won't be disappointed!

 

[shadyJ]

Nice!

I bet you're excited for your new sub. I was VERY close to getting that same exact sub. I had in narrowed down to the R115SW and a Hsu sub, the VTF 15H MK2 and ended up going with the Hsu model. It was a tough decision to make because they both reviewed so well.

I don't know what sub you are replacing (or if you have one at all) but I think you'll be amazed at the difference a great sub can make! I've had mine for a little over a month and am still shocked at the difference it makes every time we watch a movie.

One suggestion, watch "Interstellar" once you get the sub set up and dialed in. I promise you won't be disappointed!

The 115Sw sub looks to be on the level of the VTF2 mk5, from available measurements. The VTF15h will easily outperform it.

 

[hextall27]

I'm replacing an old Klipsch 12 in downfiring sub. Probably 13 years old