Audioholics: please tell me if I’m crazy (for considering a subwoofer purchase)

[Henry Howards]

I’ll describe my situation so the good folks here can share their wisdom with me. I live in a one-room studio cottage that is around 3,500 cubic feet [see more stats below] Available floor space is limited, here.
For several years now I have been the satisfied owner of four Paradigm Reference Active 40 v2 loudspeakers (2 in front, 2 in back -- I have no room for side speakers). They have a frequency response of ±1dB 36Hz-20kHz (with some additional low-end extension) and they do indeed produce accurate deep bass.
About the only spaces I have available for subwoofers would be to the right and left of my TV, or a spot for 1 subwoofer at the center of the back wall.
I have always been happy with the acoustics of this studio and the bass performance of my Paradigm loudspeakers. I listen mostly to Classical music and Pipe Organ music (with low bass). I also have a fair amount of movies on Blu-ray, but probably not very many of the "blockbusters" that are renowned for their soundtracks that test the limits of audio technology. I’m not really trying to impress myself or any of my guests with the sheer Richter-scale magnitude of Low Frequency Effects. I want to give this some careful thought before introducing large, heavy and expensive subs into my small home. My budget would be $2000 maximum for 2 subwoofers. I guess I am wondering if it makes sense to invest $$$ to gain those extra 10-15Hz of bass under 35Hz. (Maybe I should just save the money and buy more Blu-rays...!)
Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice? Thanks kindly.

A Forum Member has asked me to provide a full outline of my home statistics and my needs/desires that would factor-in to choosing a subwoofer. (Sorry that this information has gotten so scattered all through this thread). Here are the answers:

1. The house is a stand-alone studio cottage - subwoofers won't disturb neighbors
2. Total interior dimensions (including bathroom and walk-in closet) 17' x 20' -- 340 sq ft
3. Main Room dimensions (Open Kitchen + Living Room) 14' x 17' with NO partition
4. A 4' x 6' Open Alcove at one end of the Main Room
5. Bathroom and Closet are accessed through 30" x 80" pocket doors on two sides of this Alcove. Both doors are kept open
6. Main Room has symmetrically vaulted ceiling, 9' high at side walls, 12' high at center
7. Estimated total volume of cottage: 3500 cbft.
8. Estimated volume of Main Room + Alcove: 2815 cbft.
9. Interested in 2 subs 60" apart, at right and left sides of TV, or 1 sub at back of room
10. Front Speakers are Paradigm Active 40s
11. Frequency response of Paradigm speakers: ±1dB 36Hz-20kHz
12. Front Speakers have excellent bass, and I want a good blend with the subs

13. I may want to place my subwoofers on a 600-lb capacity 17" x 17" platform dolly, to make them easier to maneuver:

14. Maximum width of Subs: 18"
15. Maximum height of Subs: 24"
16. Subs can be Ported or Sealed
17. Listening Distance from Subs, for Music: 6' to 8'
18. Listening Distance from Subs, for Movies: 4' to 6' (When I'm alone, I watch my 51" Plasma TV from just beyond the distance where "screen door effect" can be seen. Guests usually prefer more distant seating)
19. Music listening is my primary interest, Home Theater listening is secondary (I don't need or care much about loud LFE)
Listening preferences:
20. MOSTLY Classical Music / Symphonic / Opera / Pipe Organ (it would be great if I had a sub that could reproduce an organ pedal note down to 16 Hz)
21. Some 1940s-style Big Band Music & vintage vocalists [Sinatra, Streisand, etc.]
22. Some classic Country Western [Dwight Yokum, Emmylou Harris, etc.]
23. Some Beatles, 1950s Rock
24. NO contemporary pop music [no Hip-Hop, Rap, Techno, Rock, etc.]
25. I don't have an A/V Receiver. Instead, I have an Integra DTC-9.8 Pre/Pro (because of my Active Loudspeakers). The Pre/Pro has an earlier version of Audyssey
26. I'm interested in recommendations of subs costing from $400 each to $1000 each ($2000 total maximum price for 2 subs)
27. I'm focused on high-quality musical fidelity. If the sub is great for music, it will be plenty good enough for my Home Theater needs.

Here are some subwoofer models that have been suggested to me (in no order of price or preference):

Rythmik L22
Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP
Hsu VTF-2 MK5
Hsu VTF-1 MK3
Hsu ULS-15 MK2
RSL Speedwoofer 10s
SVS PC-2000
SVS SB-2000
Power Sound Audio 15S [downward firing driver]
Power Sound Audio S1500 [front firing driver]
Dayton SUB-1200
Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12

Let me know if you'd like any more information. Thanks for all the help from the fine Bassoholics on this Subwoofer Forum!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Henry,
Most subwoofer ID companies allow you 30 to 60 days in home trial, some even with free returns.
As for provided spec, I would a bit suspicious, given these speakers smaller brother (Active/20) was spec'd to be -3db at 35hz, but measured to be -6db at 35. http://www.stereophile.com/content/paradigm-reference-active20-loudspeaker-measurements#2Yr46qQxsft8k4ef.97
Don't get me wrong - even -6db at 35hz from such small speakers is nothing wrong of awesome, but even Paradigm could be a bit creative with their provided spec.

Not much of music is using much of bass below 50hz, but movies and scifi movies do include sound effects meant to be played only by subwoofer.

As for budget , I think $500 is a bit unrealistic due to 3k cuft volume. it's not that small. Single good sub if placed properly could provide you will good bass at one spot, but two will allow the sweet bass "spot" to be much larger. Will floorspace is at premium may you should consider tube subs like PC2000.
They take very little floor space

 

[lovinthehd]

I say go for it. One of the best improvements to home audio I've made was the addition of capable subs, for both music and movies. SVS also has excellent in home trial terms. Advance determination of sub location may or may not give you the best response, the sub(s)' interaction with your room will dictate where it (or they) will work best. Do you have gear with bass management to assist in the integration with your speakers?

 

[KEW]

Where are you located? If near me, I can set you up with a trial.
What receiver do you have? We need to understand how well/easily you can add a sub.

 

[shadyJ]

I think the speedwoofer or VTF1 will be an audible improvement over what you have now for deep bass. However, if you are expecting thunderous pipe organ deep bass, you may want to raise your budget a bit. I would be looking at a Hsu VTF2 mk5 or Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12. Those have significantly more deep bass output then the Speedwoofer or VTF1, and they do not cost much more than either. There is a very good sale on the Outlaw subs at the moment. These are larger than the VTF1 and speedwoofer, but you can't really have powerful deep bass without a large enclosure.

 

[Henry Howards]

Where are you located? If near me, I can set you up with a trial.
What receiver do you have? We need to understand how well/easily you can add a sub.

I live a little south of San Francisco. Because my loudspeakers are active, I didn't buy a receiver. Instead, I purchased a used Integra DTC-9.8 Pre/Pro on eBay. It's an older 7.1 model, and naturally it doesn't possess all the latest bells-and whistles, but it is pretty flexible with quite a few input-output options and, it has been serving my purposes well so far. It also has an earlier version of the Audyssey room equalization software and a microphone, but to be honest I haven't been especially impressed by the results when I've tried it. It might be useful, however, with integrating subwoofer(s) into the acoustics of my room. Thanks for your help -- it's appreciated!

 

[j_garcia]

Your room isn't that large. A single good sub should do just fine. VTF-2 Mk5 or SVS SB2000.

 

[Henry Howards]

One of the best improvements to home audio I've made was the addition of capable subs, for both music and movies. Do you have gear with bass management to assist in the integration with your speakers?

I have an Integra DTC-9.8 Pre/Pro that includes an early version of Audyssey (which may or may not be helpful -- the equalization it achieves has seemed kind of rudimentary, when I've tried using it before). Unfortunately, I have ZERO room for maneuvering two subs that are placed up front, and only about a foot of leeway on a single sub placed at the back, so a subwoofer model that has a wide variety of adjustment options would probably be desirable, under these circumstances. What was your original speaker setup, before you added your subs?

 

[j_garcia]

Thanks -- I will be sure to research your suggestions. What is your opinion about one larger sub versus two smaller subs? So far, I have gathered that the "two-subs-are-better-than-one" approach has a lot of supporters...

Two would be for problem rooms or larger rooms IMO. Under $1k, you can get one excellent one or two decent ones. I'd rather have the excellent one.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks -- I will be sure to research your suggestions. What is your opinion about one larger sub versus two smaller subs? So far, I have gathered that the "two-subs-are-better-than-one" approach has a lot of supporters...

The main benefit of two subs is generally smoother response through the room over multiple seats, altho when your sub locations are limited this may even benefit a single seat. Also somewhat depends how low and loud you want to go, and how big a sub box (boxes) you can handle. If you really want to chase those 16Hz organ notes a single badass sub may be better.

For $1000 DIY/AIY subs start to become very interesting, depending on your tolerance for such....

Former SF & SF area guy myself....was in the Four Corners area last (84 & Skyline/35). Sounds like you have a nice setup for the area....

 

[lovinthehd]

I have an Integra DTC-9.8 Pre/Pro that includes an early version of Audyssey (which may or may not be helpful -- the equalization it achieves has seemed kind of rudimentary, when I've tried using it before). Unfortunately, I have ZERO room for maneuvering two subs that are placed up front, and only about a foot of leeway on a single sub placed at the back, so a subwoofer model that has a wide variety of adjustment options would probably be desirable, under these circumstances. What was your original speaker setup, before you added your subs?

Missed this, see my other post as well. Your pre-pro will be fine for integrating a sub; Audyssey XT will do well for both integrating and eq'g your sub.

I've had various speaker setups without subs for a long time, mostly 2.0 but even my first surround setup; only got "into" subs a few years back. I had a pair of Carver Amazing Speakers I wish I had sub(s) with but they died before I got into it. These days I build my own when I want a new sub. I have two 5.2 setups and a 9.4 these days. I do like bass everything, a bassoholic if you will.

 

[Henry Howards]

Under $1k, you can get one excellent one or two decent ones. I'd rather have the excellent one.

Thanks - that's helpful. The consensus of answers, here, seems to be encouraging me to spend a little more on a single, high-quality sub, so that's the advice I will gladly follow. Now, I'm off to search through the Audiholics trusted reviews of subwoofers to determine WHICH of those models might work best for me. I'm much obliged for the friendly assistance from everyone. This is a great site and a truly superior forum...

 

[KEW]

I suspect that pre-pro has all you need to properly integrate a sub. I believe Audyssey is most beneficial with the bass so would give it another shot after setting up a sub, but no guarantees!

Since you feel good about the bass you are currently getting, I would crossover at 60Hz using your pre-pro (instead of the more standard 80Hz).

Oh! To answer your question, you are definitely not crazy for considering a subwoofer purchase; however, you are crazy to ask that question here and believe you could possibly get an answer other than "Buy one (or two)!".
I would normally steer you towards dual subs, but your comments about room acoustics lead me to believe that one is a better option for your situation.
Here is a decent article on the topic:
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/two-subs

 

[vsound5150]

Sealed or ported subs for his environment? I understand some subs you can plug the ports to have both options while others (ie. SVS) have internal amps specifically designed to the cabinet and shouldn't be plugged.

 

[Wisco_HiFi]

My advice would be to start with one. See if it makes a big enough difference for you. Some people are perfectly happy with one. You can always add another in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Henry Howards]

Sealed or ported subs for his environment?

I think that is a perceptive question. I have noted that some subwoofers, like the Hsu, offer quite a few adjustment options, including plugs for the ports. That flexibility may prove very helpful for integrating the sub in my situation, because I have almost no choice but to place whatever model I buy in a spot that has been predetermined by the tight layout of my room. (In a way, that may be a good thing, since it prevents me from obsessing over the "optimum" positioning of the subwoofer...)

 

[vsound5150]

I never heard of the Hsu subs until coming to this site. Those subs seem to be very diverse to fit different environments it even has a Q control on the back and great price range. Almost wish I tried those before the SVS's I have.

 

[j_garcia]

Sealed or ported subs for his environment? I understand some subs you can plug the ports to have both options while others (ie. SVS) have internal amps specifically designed to the cabinet and shouldn't be plugged.

Based on what you've said, I'd probably say sealed. SVS offers both sealed and vented and I think some of the vented ones can be tuned (higher models). I've owned an older VTF-2 and found the ability to tune nice, but tended to keep it in sealed mode. Vented subs are fun and can still sound great, but I lean toward sealed (current sub is sealed).

 

[Henry Howards]

Vented subs are fun and can still sound great, but I lean toward sealed (current sub is sealed).

What are the benefits of a sealed sub that have helped you decide in their favor? Wouldn't the ability to choose vented, one port sealed, or fully sealed mode on a sub like the Hsu give the owner some extra options for better integrating the subwoofer with the acoustic of the room, as well as tailoring the sound for specific listening situations? (That is, one mode for watching movies and another mode for listening to music.) I'm curious about this and I'd like to understand it better. Thanks!

 

[j_garcia]

What are the benefits of a sealed sub that have helped you decide in their favor? Wouldn't the ability to choose vented, one port sealed, or fully sealed mode on a sub like the Hsu give the owner some extra options for better integrating the subwoofer with the acoustic of the room, as well as tailoring the sound for specific listening situations? (That is, one mode for watching movies and another mode for listening to music.) I'm curious about this and I'd like to understand it better.

It is a set of tradeoffs normally. Sealed = smoother, tighter sounding bass but gives up some of the deepest extension. Generally better with music IMO. Vented = more output and digs deeper, but can be less clean sounding. Big boom for movies. Now, that depends on the specific sub as you can have some that cross those boundaries and do well with both, but in general that's what you're looking at.