Pre Out vs Line Out

[vsound5150]

Hi all,

I want to connect an external amp. I have dual subwoofers connected to the two PRE OUT's and Onkyo said to use Zone 2 LINE OUT RCA outputs. But isn't LINE OUT speaker level signals and would it degrade sound quality if used?

Thank you for your help.

 

[slipperybidness]

By definition Line Out = "Line Level Output"

But, your issue may be that you don't have volume control on a line level out, that's why you usually use the pre-amp out (for volume control).

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW speaker level output is often called high level output and line-level output is often called low level....

 

[vsound5150]

Thanks guys, I never thought about volume control. The owners manual says the following below so maybe it's a no go. I just need the main room amplified and one volume control.

"The volume should be adjusted with the pre-main amplifier used in the separate room"

Is pre-out called low level or something else?

 

[slipperybidness]

Thanks guys, I never thought about volume control. The owners manual says the following below so maybe it's a no go. I just need the main room amplified.

"The volume should be adjusted with the pre-main amplifier used in the separate room"

Is pre-out called low level or something else?

Pre-out = line level = low level. But, pre-out would typically imply "volume control" while line out would typically imply "no volume control". But, those aren't hard rules.

Basically, if that diagram is from your AVR, then it really looks like this AVR isn't intended for the ability to add an amplifier (no multi-channel/full range pre-amp outs)

Let's take a step back--What problem are you trying to solve by adding an external amp here?

 

[vsound5150]

Great I understand now. I'm trying to see what my options are with that Onkyo TX-NR646 receiver.

My initial problem was searching for superb sound including low volumes which I found replacing the Onkyo with a Marantz SR7010, it's like night and day with the sound quality. The Onkyo seems to sound better at high volumes for music I'm deciding if I should keep it but may just get rid of it.

 

[slipperybidness]

Great I understand now. I'm trying to see what my options are with that Onkyo TX-NR646 receiver.

My initial problem was searching for superb sound including low volumes which I found replacing the Onkyo with a Marantz SR7010, it's like night and day with the sound quality. The Onkyo seems to sound better at high volumes for music I'm deciding if I should keep it but may just get rid of it.

If I'm looking for quality at low volumes, that may be a time that I would use some DSP features (i.e. "dialog mode", midnight loudness, etc), especially if we are talking about movies and TV.

Honestly either of these AVRs are pretty well regarded, so I'm kind of surprised that you are hearing dramatic differences. Makes me wonder if you have some DSP already engaged? Or some room correction is throwing you off.

Have you compared the AVRs in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode? No processing, no RC, and level matched?

And, what speakers are you running?

1 Thing on that Onkyo TX-NR646 that has me a bit confused--It seems to have a Sub pre-out, but what is that pre-out below the one marked as "Sub"??? That is only a 5.1.2 AVR, but that 2nd pre-out isn't exactly labeled............

 

[lovinthehd]

It's just a second sub pre-out on the Onkyo. It's labeled as a "7.2" avr on the Onkyo website. I'm also curious about this "drastic" difference in sq; sounds like perhaps the difference Audyssey DynamicEQ on the Marantz could make.

 

[slipperybidness]

It's just a second sub pre-out on the Onkyo. It's labeled as a "7.2" avr on the Onkyo website. I'm also curious about this "drastic" difference in sq; sounds like perhaps the difference Audyssey DynamicEQ on the Marantz could make.

Odd, amazon showed "5.1.2"

2nd sub makes sense, but I'm gonna guess it's really just 1 sub out that has been split to 2 connections.

 

[lovinthehd]

Odd, amazon showed "5.1.2"

2nd sub makes sense, but I'm gonna guess it's really just 1 sub out that has been split to 2 connections.

I really don't like looking at sellers' websites for specs/info, the manufacturer's site is (or should be) more complete.

Only a relative few of the ".2" avrs are providing more than an internal splitter...

 

[vsound5150]

Yes the pre-outs are confusing I don't know what the engineer was smoking it simply needs labeling to clear the confusion. I had to ask Onkyo about those too when connecting dual subs they said connect each sub to each pre-out.

I believe the pre-outs are tied together and not discrete separate channels. During AccuEQ calibration it didn't give me the option (not sure if it's supposed to) to correct phase for the subs like the Marantz Audyssey did, I believe the Marantz are separate for subs I only had it for a week so far.

Regarding sound quality comparison (music not movies) I can only describe the Marantz being very bright, controlled, and detailed. To be honest I was a bit shocked. On one rock song (nine inch nails or godsmack) the drums flowed across from left to right so clearly I could hear each separate tuned drum I felt I visioned the actual drummer and my jaw just dropped in awe, never experienced this before now I know why you guys are here.

The Onkyo steps up to the plate with movies not so much music, I tried various settings and music sounded more flat and contained like they were packaged/suffocating and not open exposed and bright like the Marantz. The Onkyo is still good sounding but something for me wasn't there.

I'm running SVS Prime Tower's up front, Martin Logan 8 center, SVS PB1000 dual subs, and Boston Accoustic surrounds.

 

[lovinthehd]

Did you compare the Marantz to the Onkyo without dsp engaged, though? Sounds like you're doing it post-Audyssey. Audyssey would be superior to AccuEQ by all accounts I've read.

 

[vsound5150]

Bare with me I'm still new to this stuff. This Onkyo (TX-NR646) has options to cycle through different sound modes including a Direct option which didn't sound good but All Ch Stereo and suprisingly DTS Neural:X modes sounded best and there is a phase matching bass option, it basically boosts bass without over saturating but makes everything sound better overall. I think Onkyo designed this model more for movies.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but that model Marantz auto-switches to the content coming in. With the Onkyo I had to look at the DVD or Blu-ray recording format first and manually set it on the receiver before starting a movie.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

On my Onkyo integrated amp (A-9050), the "Zone 2" outputs are low level and are affected by the volume control. I have connected a power amp to it and used it that way with good results. Peace and goodwill.

 

[lovinthehd]

Bare with me I'm still new to this stuff. This Onkyo (TX-NR646) has options to cycle through different sound modes including a Direct option which didn't sound good but All Ch Stereo and suprisingly DTS Neural:X modes sounded best and there is a phase matching bass option, it basically boosts bass without over saturating but makes everything sound better overall. I think Onkyo designed this model more for movies.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but that model Marantz auto-switches to the content coming in. With the Onkyo I had to look at the DVD or Blu-ray recording format first and manually set it on the receiver before starting a movie.

The Marantz also has various sound modes you can try, sound modes are a matter of preference as to which one works best for someone.

Surprising the Onkyo doesn't have the ability automatically detect the codec used on the disc, you might want to review the manual on that point. There should be an information mode to tell you what the input format is without using the disc's box, too. Is your player connected via hdmi?

What we're saying about comparing the avrs is to do it in pure direct mode, otherwise you're not comparing the avrs on a level playing field since their dsp (both the room correction/eq as well as the sound modes) is different.

Onkyo used to use Audyssey, but their AccuEQ is quite a bit different (and not as good by most reports as I mentioned before).

 

[vsound5150]

What we're saying about comparing the avrs is to do it in pure direct mode, otherwise you're not comparing the avrs on a level playing field since their dsp (both the room correction/eq as well as the sound modes) is different.

Onkyo used to use Audyssey, but their AccuEQ is quite a bit different (and not as good by most reports as I mentioned before).

Super, I didn't compare mode for mode I just listened to the Onkyo for couple weeks and found the setting that sounded best then I setup the Marantz and listened.

I don't believe I cycled through the Marantz modes yet. When I received the unit I just turned it on, upgraded firmware, calibrated, inserted a CD and the sound was outstanding. I may mess with it more this weekend I have to lower the shelf it's on and put a fan on top to keep temps down.

 

[lovinthehd]

Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't really define which unit has superior sound qualities, but rather what dsp tweaks you preferred. Just sayin'....

Definitely keep that puppy nicely ventilated.