Here come New Brands of OLED TV's!

[BMXTRIX]

I will say it again, OLED will die on the vine if other manufacturers don't get into the game. It will die if LED with totally bogus marketing scam called 4K continue to be marketed and sold.

These statements are not accurate.

OLED may not be an incompatible technology, no display technology is, however its a competing technology and if its not competitive on the market, it will die.

This is mostly accurate. It's the crux of the entire argument, but doesn't support your other statements, it also ignores the most important thing.

If OLED is PROFITABLE, it will not die. It will remain on the market. It must not only be price competitive with whatever else is out there, but it must make the manufacturer (LG at this time) a profit. If LG is profitable, with a better looking display than others, at a price competitive point, then whatever anyone else makes is irrelevant. Completely. It's about profitability.

Did you not witness how LED killed off PDP technology? The death of Plasma went in the opposite direction, display manufacturers that once made plasma TV's, gradually, one after the other, stop making them in favor LED. Now no current display manufacturer makes or markets plasma TV's so therefore plasma is obsolete. The attributes of OLED is loss on the masses, they don't care about infinite blacks, they are happy with their now $300.00 4K LED's.

Plasma is not obsolete, as the best looking plasmas (Pioneer Kuro) still look better than any other LCD out there, and arguably as good/better than OLED.

But, it goes back to the crux of the statement: Plasma is not a price competitive technology while retaining profitability. To get them thin, quality went down, to lower production and shipping costs quality went down. By the time the plasma was redesigned to be LCD thin, it had cost a ton of money, they didn't have the black levels of a Kuro, and LCD/LED was pushing brightness, while increasing viewing angles to an acceptable level for a similar price, but with higher profitability.

Pioneer lost tens of millions on Kuros. Even at their high price, it wasn't profitable, so they left that industry behind. It wasn't about them being price competitive, but profitable.

LG doesn't cornerstone their flat panel market with OLED. They have dozens of different TVs at all sizes, in all types of LCD configurations. They reserve OLED at the upper end of the spectrum to compete against Samsung and others who have those better displays. If LG isn't making a profit at competitive prices, then I agree 100%, that OLED will die out.
But, this doesn't require any more manufacturers. It requires profitability. That's it.

 

[Jeffrey S. Albaugh]

These statements are not accurate.


This is mostly accurate. It's the crux of the entire argument, but doesn't support your other statements, it also ignores the most important thing.

If OLED is PROFITABLE, it will not die. It will remain on the market. It must not only be price competitive with whatever else is out there, but it must make the manufacturer (LG at this time) a profit. If LG is profitable, with a better looking display than others, at a price competitive point, then whatever anyone else makes is irrelevant. Completely. It's about profitability.


Plasma is not obsolete, as the best looking plasmas (Pioneer Kuro) still look better than any other LCD out there, and arguably as good/better than OLED.

But, it goes back to the crux of the statement: Plasma is not a price competitive technology while retaining profitability. To get them thin, quality went down, to lower production and shipping costs quality went down. By the time the plasma was redesigned to be LCD thin, it had cost a ton of money, they didn't have the black levels of a Kuro, and LCD/LED was pushing brightness, while increasing viewing angles to an acceptable level for a similar price, but with higher profitability.

Pioneer lost tens of millions on Kuros. Even at their high price, it wasn't profitable, so they left that industry behind. It wasn't about them being price competitive, but profitable.

LG doesn't cornerstone their flat panel market with OLED. They have dozens of different TVs at all sizes, in all types of LCD configurations. They reserve OLED at the upper end of the spectrum to compete against Samsung and others who have those better displays. If LG isn't making a profit at competitive prices, then I agree 100%, that OLED will die out.
But, this doesn't require any more manufacturers. It requires profitability. That's it.

Plasma is obsolete, since no one is producing new ones. (Dead, dead, dead). OLED is the future, but don't expect it from Sony & Samsung. They don't want to join any other group. Irregardless, 4K WILL GO AWAY, AS THEIR SETS CONTINUE TO PLUMMET DOWNWARDS in price. Help is on it's way soon. 6 other manufacturers are getting in to OLED. Panasonic; most notable. Don't look for other names from the past are gone. These guys have faded away into the fog. No more Mitsushitty, Hitachi, Sanyo, Sharp, etc. There are new Companies that have bought up some of the old ones such as TCL & Hisense. Don't laugh at these companies. They are coming on strong. Samsung SUHD doesn't compare to OLED. Neither does Sony.

As for Kuro; this is stupid talk. It came out in 2008, and by 2009, they quit making them. They surely are obsolete to the point that OLED blows them away. None of these others can produce infinite contrast ratio, no backlighting whatsoever (just a temp crutch). OLED: best color, best off axis viewing, fastest refresh rates. Just give up on the old technologies of the past (they had on HDMI, 4K, Smartness, streaming apps, and on and on. Get with the program.

 

[Hi Ho]

Irregardless, 4K WILL GO AWAY, AS THEIR SETS CONTINUE TO PLUMMET DOWNWARDS in price.

Huh? 4K is just a marketing term for the higher resolution sets and 4K sets are not going anywhere. There are 4K LCDs and 4K OLED's on the market. 4K has nothing to do with the display technology itself.

 

[panteragstk]

Huh? 4K is just a marketing term for the higher resolution sets and 4K sets are not going anywhere. There are 4K LCDs and 4K OLED's on the market. 4K has nothing to do with the display technology itself.

You're wasting your time.

 

[Jeffrey S. Albaugh]

Huh? 4K is just a marketing term for the higher resolution sets and 4K sets are not going anywhere. There are 4K LCDs and 4K OLED's on the market. 4K has nothing to do with the display technology itself.

The only sets that are plummeting are the 4K UHD. OLED is not. They are at a premium, until the numerous other manufacturer's come out with OLED soon, including Panasonic. OLED is superior. Once the other manufacturers join in; the price on OLED's will start to go down. Some people just don't like LG.

 

[slipperybidness]

You're wasting your time.

Yeah, if only someone had educated him on this topic before. Or maybe if the first 7 people can't make the point, then the 8th person will

Reminds me of a joke about shots of tequila

 

[slipperybidness]

The only sets that are plummeting are the 4K UHD. OLED is not. They are at a premium, until the numerous other manufacturer's come out with OLED soon, including Panasonic. OLED is superior. Once the other manufacturers join in; the price on OLED's will start to go down. Some people just don't like LG.

1 more try

OLED is a TECHNOLOGY.
4K is a SPECIFICATION.

OLED Technology can be "4K OLED"
You can also have "4K LED" or "4K-Insert display technology here"

 

[j_garcia]

Did you not witness how LED killed off PDP technology? The death of Plasma went in the opposite direction, display manufacturers that once made plasma TV's, gradually, one after the other, stop making them in favor LED. Now no current display manufacturer makes or markets plasma TV's so therefore plasma is obsolete. The attributes of OLED is loss on the masses, they don't care about infinite blacks, they are happy with their now $300.00 4K LED's.

LED is a backlighting technology, not a display technology; they are still LCD. Plasma died because it cannot meet greet power reduction requirements and LCD and OLED easily can. As BMX mentioned, they couldn't make them any smaller and lighter either and that was a big factor in their demise, regardless of image quality.

OLED isn't going anywhere, and for now, neither is LCD until the cost to manufacture larger OLED panels goes down. More of the big names are investing in OLED (not all of them) so we'll see if that ends up bringing prices down.

 

[everettT]

I still have 3 pioneer plasmas 141, 151, and 1150 ,with 6k, 10k and 23k hours on them . Two have been recalibrated isf after the initial calibrations. I have not even considered replacing them as the PQ is still phenomenal. The only downside to them is their weight. If I'm gonna drop another 7k on a display it better be a proven game changer with the type of reliability I've gotten out of the pioneers.

 

[panteragstk]

I still have 3 pioneer plasmas 141, 151, and 1150 ,with 6k, 10k and 23k hours on them . Two have been recalibrated isf after the initial calibrations. I have not even considered replacing them as the PQ is still phenomenal. The only downside to them is their weight. If I'm gonna drop another 7k on a display it better be a proven game changer with the type of reliability I've gotten out of the pioneers.

That is the reason that LG is the only one selling OLED at this time. I know that there are concerns as to the longevity of OLED from the other manufacturers. We still have no clue how long they panels will last.

I've got two Panasonic plasmas and one of them is 10 years old and was in constant use for about 7 of those years. Still looks great but pales in comparison to my newest (last gen) Panny. OLED looks fantastic, but I can't replace this TV with how fantastic the picture is. If I get an additional TV I'll look at OLED, but I'm not going to drop $5k on a TV to be a guinea pig for a manufacturer. Ask all those folks that bought Mitsubishi laser TVs how well that worked out for them.

 

[fuzz092888]

That is the reason that LG is the only one selling OLED at this time. I know that there are concerns as to the longevity of OLED from the other manufacturers. We still have no clue how long they panels will last.

I've got two Panasonic plasmas and one of them is 10 years old and was in constant use for about 7 of those years. Still looks great but pales in comparison to my newest (last gen) Panny. OLED looks fantastic, but I can't replace this TV with how fantastic the picture is. If I get an additional TV I'll look at OLED, but I'm not going to drop $5k on a TV to be a guinea pig for a manufacturer. Ask all those folks that bought Mitsubishi laser TVs how well that worked out for them.

I agree. I missed out on the final generation of Panny Plasmas, but I was able to get in on the last and second to last generations of Samsung Plasmas before they went the way of the Dodo. I've been to the high end stores and BB Magnolias and seen the new TV's. I still think my Sammy Plasmas compete PQ-wise with most anything out there right now. Plus I got them at prices I can live with. $5K for those OLED's is a steep price for something unproven in the long haul for only comparable PQ.

I'd rather invest in a newer projector or a better screen or more subwoofers. I feel like I'll get a heckuva lot more return in those areas.

 

[panteragstk]

I agree. I missed out on the final generation of Panny Plasmas, but I was able to get in on the last and second to last generations of Samsung Plasmas before they went the way of the Dodo. I've been to the high end stores and BB Magnolias and seen the new TV's. I still think my Sammy Plasmas compete PQ-wise with most anything out there right now. Plus I got them at prices I can live with. $5K for those OLED's is a steep price for something unproven in the long haul for only comparable PQ.

I'd rather invest in a newer projector or a better screen or more subwoofers. I feel like I'll get a heckuva lot more return in those areas.

Agreed. The only problem is finding a projector that doesn't make me think "wow, my panny looks so much better. I wonder if I can find projector as good..."

 

[fuzz092888]

Agreed. The only problem is finding a projector that doesn't make me think "wow, my panny looks so much better. I wonder if I can find projector as good..."

IMO, the JVC's are about as good as you can get, followed closely by the Sony's. If buying used doesn't scare you off there are deals to be had. I got a 1.5 year old model (at the time it was 1.5 years old) for about $1400 and it came with a brand new OEM replacement bulb. In a darkened room, after calibration, I think it rivals my TV's. So did most of the people who have seen it. Granted, they are not videophiles, but all the same they were in love with the PQ. I recently went and demo'ed Sony's top of the line projector with built in anamorphic capability. Really really good projector, but a little out of my price range. OTOH, didn't beat out my JVC in any area except brightness. It seemed like the super expensive Sony was able to be calibrated a little brighter while still maintaining some pretty decent black levels. However, you should be able to get that for $15,000.

 

[panteragstk]

IMO, the JVC's are about as good as you can get, followed closely by the Sony's. If buying used doesn't scare you off there are deals to be had. I got a 1.5 year old model (at the time it was 1.5 years old) for about $1400 and it came with a brand new OEM replacement bulb. In a darkened room, after calibration, I think it rivals my TV's. So did most of the people who have seen it. Granted, they are not videophiles, but all the same they were in love with the PQ. I recently went and demo'ed Sony's top of the line projector with built in anamorphic capability. Really really good projector, but a little out of my price range. OTOH, didn't beat out my JVC in any area except brightness. It seemed like the super expensive Sony was able to be calibrated a little brighter while still maintaining some pretty decent black levels. However, you should be able to get that for $15,000.

Used doesn't bother me all that much. I've got my eye on one of the JVC DLA-X500R models with "4K and HDR" and built in anamorphic like the Sony you mentioned. That would be a nice upgrade over my current HC4000. Won't be doing that till the new kid arrives and all the bills are taken care of.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Plasma is obsolete, since no one is producing new ones. (Dead, dead, dead).

I misspoke - While plasma technology is dead, the best plasmas, including several generations of Pioneer Elite, followed by Kuro, look better, today, after many years of being out of production, then the best looking LCD displays on the market.

They ALSO have advantages over OLED when it comes to motion and response time.

OLED is the future, but don't expect it from Sony & Samsung. They don't want to join any other group.

OLED is the present. It may be the future, or something else may be the future. I actually won't speculate. My argument is that with or without other manufacturers, OLED displays look better than anything currently produced, with a competitive price point. That's all that really matters.

...4K WILL GO AWAY, AS THEIR SETS CONTINUE TO PLUMMET DOWNWARDS in price. Help is on it's way soon. 6 other manufacturers are getting in to OLED. Panasonic; most notable.

When you say things like this, after having things explained to you multiple times, it makes me want to vomit. No, really... vomit.

As for Kuro; this is stupid talk. It came out in 2008, and by 2009, they quit making them. They surely are obsolete to the point that OLED blows them away.

This is where you show how foolish you are as a person. Elite, then Kuro, from Pioneer was top shelf. Just because it's nearly a decade old doesn't mean that OLED 'blows it away'. OLED has weaker response time and can't handle motion as well as any plasma. The ansi black levels of Kuro are extremely close. If you haven't seen them side by side, then you should read reviews from people who actually own both. They are out there.

None of these others can produce infinite contrast ratio, no backlighting whatsoever (just a temp crutch). OLED: best color, best off axis viewing, fastest refresh rates.

Plasma comes very close to this. Kuro does this even better. Plasma has faster refresh rates as well. They also have better off-axis viewing. They just couldn't compete on price, and the big factories shut down.

Just give up on the old technologies of the past (they had on HDMI, 4K, Smartness, streaming apps, and on and on. Get with the program.

In what world does any quality setup need any of that?
One receiver: One HDMI
One Roku: Better 'Smart' functionality
Streaming Apps? Oh, you mean Roku? Again? You are repeating yourself.
4K? Yes, no 4K, but incredible response time, and best in history off-axis viewing.

I'm not going out to buy a plasma ever again. My next display could very well be a OLED if they make it large enough.

But, plasma has been the best image in the world for years, and OLED doesn't shatter that quality, but has some advantages, and some disadvantages.

 

[3db]

Plasma displays still get the nod for best picture compared to LCD but just by a hair . Good LCD panels have surpassed picture quality of the lower rung plasmas. Picture technology have changed a lot since these early days.

That being said, I can't wait for OLED prices to drop. They sure lolook promising.

 

[j_garcia]

The TOP LED LCD panels look as good as Plasma IMO except for their blacks, but you are going to pay a premium for them (though still not as much as a decent OLED). OLED IS currently the future. You will see more companies doing it; it is starting already, and that means prices will come down and PQ will likely improve actually. That may still be a year out, but it will happen.

The next tech is a while off and companies are working on it now. The next thing is 8K and since most aren't even adopting 4K, it won't be anytime soon.

 

[slipperybidness]

The TOP LED LCD panels look as good as Plasma IMO except for their blacks, but you are going to pay a premium for them (though still not as much as a decent OLED). OLED IS currently the future. You will see more companies doing it; it is starting already, and that means prices will come down and PQ will likely improve actually. That may still be a year out, but it will happen.

The next tech is a while off and companies are working on it now. The next thing is 8K and since most aren't even adopting 4K, it won't be anytime soon.

Waiting, waiting, waiting, but I really hope OLED does take off. If there were other manufacturers besides LG, I probably would have already bought into this. Even as it stands, I'm just about considering ignoring my better judgment and going with LG.

I've mentioned this on here before, but when I was in school we had a guest professor come lecture our Polymer (Macromolecular Chemistry) class, and his research and lecture was all about OLED technology. That was ~15 years ago and blew my mind! Ever since that lecture, I've been jonesing for large panel OLED! The best I have now is my OLED on my Sammy phone.

 

[j_garcia]

LG has taken the OLED lead in TVs at this point actually, though we'll see for how long. They invested heavily in it and that seems to have been the right call to some extent, however Samsung has already been doing it and doing it very well for a long time too; just on mobile devices not TVs. Apple's next devices will move from LCD to OLED also, so the paradigm shift is coming. The groundwork for what we've been waiting for is happening now.

I had posted previously that I invested in a flexible OLED company something like 15+ years ago too and nothing ever happened. NOW that is also beginning to take shape.

 

[slipperybidness]

LG has taken the OLED lead in TVs at this point actually, though we'll see for how long. They invested heavily in it and that seems to have been the right call to some extent, however Samsung has already been doing it and doing it very well for a long time too; just on mobile devices not TVs. Apple's next devices will move from LCD to OLED also, so the paradigm shift is coming. The groundwork for what we've been waiting for is happening now.

I had posted previously that I invested in a flexible OLED company something like 15+ years ago too and nothing ever happened. NOW that is also beginning to take shape.

Yeah, the 2 key points from that lecture:

1) It is possible to have FLEXIBLE screens using OLED
2) OLED panels can be PRINTED by modifying a standard printer. It's been so long, I can't remember, but I think he was talking about an ink jet printer.

Obviously, printing isn't likely to take hold in large-scale manufacturing, but pretty neat nonetheless