Home Theater - Major Issue

[herbu]

I know no one wants big ugly speakers out In The open

I do. Not ugly, but BIG.

 

[KenM10759]

Free standing speakers do NOT have to be big to put out a lot of sound, and they certainly don't have to be ugly. A good many aren't far from being as nice as fine furniture. They can be traditional rectangular boxes, they can be wild colors and artistic shapes. They can be dirt cheap or very expensive. And everything in between.

 

[AVQuest]

You are going in the wrong direction. This will not solve the problem. Your speakers will still blow up.

Your primary problem is the speakers not the amps. Until you address the speaker issue, there is no point in proceeding with changes.

In any installation you select the speakers first and the decision about amps follows from that.

Ok got it. Now the question is, what speakers should i change? i've 3 speakers behind the screen (Center, Front Right & Left), if i change these 3, should it suffice? or plz advise as to what speaker set should i be changing?

 

[AVQuest]

Warrior - now that i realize i need dedicated system for my parties, could you please suggest what equipment i need... budget is around $5K and the purpose is solely to play music in the basement for parties...

 

[TLS Guy]

Warrior - now that i realize i need dedicated system for my parties, could you please suggest what equipment i need... budget is around $5K and the purpose is solely to play music in the basement for parties...

Now I'm back from the UK, I can give you my attention.

As you have found out parties are hard on the wrong gear.

Now the first thing to sort out is the speakers.

For parties you really only need a pair of good front speakers.

Now what we need to know is this.

1.) What program will you be playing?

2.) What sources will the music be played from?

3.) Is this just a party system, or will it also be used for movies and general listening.

4). What level of quality are you aiming for.

I would recommend these speakers for the mains.



Those will use 4K of your budget. However they are very sensitive and won't take much power to fill the room even under party conditions. You will easily drive them from the receiver you already have without blowing it up.

You I think will be a bit over budget, as I think you will need couple of subs. Look at HSU for your needs.

 

[AVQuest]

Now what we need to know is this.

1.) What program will you be playing? - Not sure what you meant by that

2.) What sources will the music be played from? Phone (some songs saved.. and some times from you tube via Bluetooth)

3.) Is this just a party system, or will it also be used for movies and general listening. - ONLY 4 PARTY

4). What level of quality are you aiming for. - To ROCK the House
Also, i don't want to hook these to my current receiver... i'm looking for a mobile solutions independent of my HTS- i.e. i should be able to use the equipment only for parties(50 people) and small gatherings (20-25 people)..

 

[rojo]

Warrior - now that i realize i need dedicated system for my parties, could you please suggest what equipment i need... budget is around $5K and the purpose is solely to play music in the basement for parties...

You could build a few of these Aggressive 1299s and place them around your basement. Assemble with wood glue and clamps (buy 8 or so from Harbor Freight), roll on a coat of Duratex, and instant win. It's like Ikea furniture, but with hearing damage. Power them with a Monoprice Monolith amp and they should play 125dB+. They'll have a response and appearance similar to the Elusive 1099, still 99dB/W/m sensitivity. And you get to brag to your party guests that you built them. Money left over goes for a pair of big round hairy subs.

It might also be worth dropping Erich a note and asking him whether the 1099's will be ready to order soon. The only performance difference between the 1099 and the 1299 is that the 1299 plays 5Hz deeper. But if you get a pair of grown-up subs, the added extension will not be needed.

 

[TLS Guy]

Now what we need to know is this.

1.) What program will you be playing? - Not sure what you meant by that

2.) What sources will the music be played from? Phone (some songs saved.. and some times from you tube via Bluetooth)

3.) Is this just a party system, or will it also be used for movies and general listening. - ONLY 4 PARTY

4). What level of quality are you aiming for. - To ROCK the House
Also, i don't want to hook these to my current receiver... i'm looking for a mobile solutions independent of my HTS- i.e. i should be able to use the equipment only for parties(50 people) and small gatherings (20-25 people)..

Your program is rock.

This amp will power those speakers just fine for your intended use.

The preamp is more problematic. Two channel pre amps are still analog largely and fairly pricey. Since you are using digital sources, for your intended use, your cheapest and most versatile solution is to use a receiver with preouts and drive the rig from the right and left preouts. This will give you a lot of versatility with connections, decoding and bass management. If this is done unit by unit, then your cost is going to go though the roof, and for your purposes functionality will be awkward.

To come anywhere close to budget, you need a pair of powerful and robust good quality speakers.

Since this is for high power I would recommend a pro grade 2 channel power amp.

I think you do need two good subs.

For the reasons stated above I think driving it from a receiver is best. Otherwise a computer, DAC and 2 channel preamp will be required. If you are not using the power amps in a receiver it should have a long life.

What I have recommended will be highly bullet proof. With the sensitivities of the speakers I have recommended 350 watts per channel will drive the rig to deafening levels without blowing up,

 

[AVQuest]

Hmmm.... while i'm trying to digest the above info, a friend of mine suggested B&O(beoplay.com)'s A9 model, is this anywhere close to what i'm looking for?

 

[shadyJ]

Now what we need to know is this.

1.) What program will you be playing? - Not sure what you meant by that

2.) What sources will the music be played from? Phone (some songs saved.. and some times from you tube via Bluetooth)

3.) Is this just a party system, or will it also be used for movies and general listening. - ONLY 4 PARTY

4). What level of quality are you aiming for. - To ROCK the House
Also, i don't want to hook these to my current receiver... i'm looking for a mobile solutions independent of my HTS- i.e. i should be able to use the equipment only for parties(50 people) and small gatherings (20-25 people)..

You are asking for a lot. You want something that has the looks of furniture grade home audio speakers yet you will be carting them around so they will need to be rugged. Anything mobile will get beat up, and that's why pro-audio live sound gear looks the way it does. A typical home audio speaker will not last long with what you intend to do.

If I were you, I would get a pair of these JTR Noesis 210RT speakers, and I would skip the subwoofer. Those speakers have reasonable extension down to 40 Hz, and they will take a beating, yet they are not totally industrial looking like live sound speakers. A good receiver or amplifier will be able to drive them to deafening levels without endangering them.

Another solution is a pair of these Three Pi or Four Pi speakers. Add to those a JTR Captivator S1 subwoofer. That is a system which will pound very hard without breaking a sweat.

And no, those B&O speakers are nothing like what you need for your purposes. They will die very quickly.

By the way, what you are doing is terrible for your ability to hear well, seriously.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmmm.... while i'm trying to digest the above info, a friend of mine suggested B&O(beoplay.com)'s A9 model, is this anywhere close to what i'm looking for?

Not even close! That is a laugh out loud suggestion.

On reflection I think you could get away with one good sub like this.

 

[TLS Guy]

You are asking for a lot. You want something that has the looks of furniture grade home audio speakers yet you will be carting them around so they will need to be rugged. Anything mobile will get beat up, and that's why pro-audio live sound gear looks the way it does. A typical home audio speaker will not last long with what you intend to do.

If I were you, I would get a pair of these JTR Noesis 210RT speakers, and I would skip the subwoofer. Those speakers have reasonable extension down to 40 Hz, and they will take a beating, yet they are not totally industrial looking like live sound speakers. A good receiver or amplifier will be able to drive them to deafening levels without endangering them.

Another solution is a pair of these Three Pi or Four Pi speakers. Add to those a JTR Captivator S1 subwoofer. That is a system which will pound very hard without breaking a sweat.

And no, those B&O speakers are nothing like what you need for your purposes. They will die very quickly.

By the way, what you are doing is terrible for your ability to hear well, seriously.

Those speakers are not a bad suggestion, however they are significantly larger, which goes against the portability issue.

I think the smaller speakers and the Rhythmic sub will fit the bill for him. There is NO mini system that will meet his needs.

If there are a lot of people in the room that will suck up a lot of sound. I doubt he will be partying everyday, or even every week.

He can use it as his home audio system and it will sound very good at moderate levels. This system will please all who hear it and give a lot of pleasure.

Also when the sound is very clean like this will be there is a lot less temptation to really blast it.

I have put together a number of high powered systems over the years and you have to put on a totally different hat from domestic audio situations.

 

[shadyJ]

I think a single sealed 15" Rythmik sub will be quickly overwhelmed by the OP. It also does not have a commensurate dynamic range of the JTR speakers you recommended. For the OP I would go with something that has good thermal management, like many live sound speakers have. Home audio subs aren't built to be continuously battered by high drive levels. JTR might be an exception because of their live sound-'esque' design.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think a single sealed 15" Rythmik sub will be quickly overwhelmed by the OP. It also does not have a commensurate dynamic range of the JTR speakers you recommended. For the OP I would go with something that has good thermal management, like many live sound speakers have. Home audio subs aren't built to be continuously battered by high drive levels. JTR might be an exception because of their live sound-'esque' design.

In a domestic space I hope it won't be overwhelmed!

Honestly the power required for subs is grossly over rated. I can tell you there is little energy below 80Hz apart from the odd Holly wood explosion. Rock music in particular has little energy below 60 Hz, which is why speakers designed for rock have had a cut off pretty much at 60 Hz.

I know in my system the power going out below 60 Hz is trivial compared to the rest, not that I would want to be without it.

We probably have more drivel about subs than on almost any other topic on these forums.

 

[shadyJ]

I agree there is a lot of nonsense going around about subs. And yes, there is a lot of music that just doesn't dig very deep, even music that would seem to- thanks to the phenomenon of the 'missing fundamental'. But then again the need for a sub depends on what you listen to. Yes, rock music doesn't have deep bass, but pop music has been digging deeper these days, thanks to the influence of dubstep and hiphop and other electronic music genres. I would say, if the OP is listening to rock music, just get a couple of these guys, and skip the sub, they are only down by 5 dB at 60 Hz. They are very mid bass capable. On the other hand, if the OP is throwing parties with bass heavy electronic music, heavy-duty subs will be needed.

 

[Jeffrey S. Albaugh]

I disagree with some of which has been propsed here. We have done tons of Residential & Commercial Jobs. Your first mistake was using a Rocket Fish selector is a cheap joke & not appropriate for your system. The next mistake you made was using the Zone two system on this system. All you need or the other zone speakers is a reasonably good Stereo Receiver to separately run those are area speakers. These two things would have gone a good way to prevent what happened. What you need to know is that this large load on a Receiver, considering the loudness that you turned it up to, kissed your speakers goodbye. It was an impedance mis -match. That is doubly dangerous when you crank up the volume. When loud, your amps clip (runs out of power, makes warning sounds) and then BOOM. When an amp clips, it sends dangerous signals to your speakers. BOOM again; this time, your speakers. I would not say that using in wall or inceiling speakers was wrong, but you need much better quality robust speakers that could have handled it. This was a very expensive lesson for you to have. I think you just went about this the wrong way, and I believe that some one misguided you. One was correct that your Subwoofer choice was a very poor choice, in act you should have a minimum of 2 Powered Subs. HSU, SVS, just to name a few. We did a job for a new & large Chinese Restaurant in Silver Spring, Maryland with 2 Dining Rooms. They would be doing Wedding Parties & Karaoke. We used a separate A/V Receiver for the other smaller Dining Room and 2 bathrooms. We put in a 5,000 lumen Projector with a 100" fixed screen. WE used mostly all Snap A/V speakers & subs. Snap is a brand strictly for Professionals only. The subwoofer system we used was dual in wall subs with dual 10" Woofers. A separate 500 watt Snap A/V rack mount , fan cooled amp. The in wall subs have built in sealed back boxes. The Snap A/V In ceiling speakers are very robust. This system is 7.2. No matter how loud it goes, no problems whatsoever. This is how you can make it bulletproof.

 

[slipperybidness]

I disagree with some of which has been propsed here. We have done tons of Residential & Commercial Jobs. Your first mistake was using a Rocket Fish selector is a cheap joke & not appropriate for your system. The next mistake you made was using the Zone two system on this system. All you need or the other zone speakers is a reasonably good Stereo Receiver to separately run those are area speakers. These two things would have gone a good way to prevent what happened. What you need to know is that this large load on a Receiver, considering the loudness that you turned it up to, kissed your speakers goodbye. It was an impedance mis -match. That is doubly dangerous when you crank up the volume. When loud, your amps clip (runs out of power, makes warning sounds) and then BOOM. When an amp clips, it sends dangerous signals to your speakers. BOOM again; this time, your speakers. I would not say that using in wall or inceiling speakers was wrong, but you need much better quality robust speakers that could have handled it. This was a very expensive lesson for you to have. I think you just went about this the wrong way, and I believe that some one misguided you. One was correct that your Subwoofer choice was a very poor choice, in act you should have a minimum of 2 Powered Subs. HSU, SVS, just to name a few. We did a job for a new & large Chinese Restaurant in Silver Spring, Maryland with 2 Dining Rooms. They would be doing Wedding Parties & Karaoke. We used a separate A/V Receiver for the other smaller Dining Room and 2 bathrooms. We put in a 5,000 lumen Projector with a 100" fixed screen. WE used mostly all Snap A/V speakers & subs. Snap is a brand strictly for Professionals only. The subwoofer system we used was dual in wall subs with dual 10" Woofers. A separate 500 watt Snap A/V rack mount , fan cooled amp. The in wall subs have built in sealed back boxes. The Snap A/V In ceiling speakers are very robust. This system is 7.2. No matter how loud it goes, no problems whatsoever. This is how you can make it bulletproof.

I tend to agree with the point about just using a completely separate system for different areas.

Honestly, I just don't understand the usefulness of Zone 2/3 and trying to run an entire house with various locations off a single AVR. Why bother? It just seems to create more problems than it solves.

You don't need a flagship AVR for your zone 2 or your patio, a mid level AVR will work fine in a situation like that. Heck, if it's music only then you don't even need that! A decent Lapai or even a decent set of powered speakers and call it done.

 

[herbu]

Honestly, I just don't understand the usefulness of Zone 2/3

I use Zone 2 as a source to my wireless headphones. If my wife and I are watching TV and I want to go in the kitchen and tend to dinner, or go out to the deck/grill, I can put on the headphones. Don't have to pause the show and make her wait while I do whatever I'm doing.

It's quite useful IF the original source is the SAT Box or BDP. Both of those have analog outputs I run to the AVR, (in addition to HDMI). However, my Amazon FireTV box does not have analog outputs. Zone 2 is problematic there.

 

[slipperybidness]

I use Zone 2 as a source to my wireless headphones. If my wife and I are watching TV and I want to go in the kitchen and tend to dinner, or go out to the deck/grill, I can put on the headphones. Don't have to pause the show and make her wait while I do whatever I'm doing.

It's quite useful IF the original source is the SAT Box or BDP. Both of those have analog outputs I run to the AVR, (in addition to HDMI). However, my Amazon FireTV box does not have analog outputs. Zone 2 is problematic there.

OK, fair enough, that is an instance where a Zone 2 absolutely makes sense to me.