Looking for advice: Yamaha RX-Z9 and pre combination

[Luca Sichel Turco]

Hello,
I would like to ask the forum for help on solving a problem.
I bought a Yamaha RX-Z9 a while back, a beautiful receiver-amp.
The problem is that features evolve so fast that I am now lacking some of the more interesting new features.
So I was thinking of adding a pre-amp to the setup, using the RX-Z9 as a power amp.
Hoping this will give me all the modern features, keeping the sound qualities and saving wrt buying a completely new AV Receiver/Amp.
Is this the right route? Any advice for a very unexperienced music/cinema lover?
Thanks in advance.

 

[KenM10759]

What application are you using the RX-Z9 for that is doesn't meet your needs? You make it sound as though there's some features in home theater application that you can't use with your current unit. Which features do you need but don't have?

Give us an idea of the room size and shape and what speaker arrangement you have. How does this fall short?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd think buying a pre-amp may not be very cost effective compared to a new avr. I take it you would like HDMI connectivity and use of the lossless codecs that would bring? As Ken mentioned, helpful to know specifics of your whole setup....

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have an older Onky 939 with an excellent amp section. When it was time to decode the newer audiop and HDMI I got an Onky 705 for the newer audio tracks and learning remote, I still connected the 939 amp section for surround duty and l/r channel. sub and center has its own amps left over from many years ago.
I just wish the 705 amp section could be totally turned off, not using idle power.

 

[Luca Sichel Turco]

Thank you all for the comments.
My setup: Room is 50sq/m, rooftop with wood board ceilings.
Speakers are JBL TiK series (2x 6k, 2x 2k, 1x center) no sub.
Source: Denon DVD-A11
Use: mainly movies and classical/jazz music.
I would like to update my source to Oppo BDP 103D Darbee Ed.
The need will be to get latest connectivity HDMI and possibly wi-fi, Dolby HD and DTS HD.
So my idea was to get a pre amp that can match the source and can integrate well with the RZ9 used as a pure amp.
Is that a sensible thing to try?
Thx to all in advance.

 

[PENG]

T Room is 50sq/m, rooftop with wood board ceilings.

Assuming the height of the room is anywhere near 2m or more, your room is considered "large" according to THX guidelines. So if you listen to reference spl, the Z9 is going to struggle.

For about 1K you can get a AVR-X4200W, then use the Z9 to biamp the L/R and the Denon can power the other 3 speakers (you can biamp the center too). Or spend more to get a prepro and try to use it with the Z9 first to see how it goes without the help of a power amp.

Either way, you really should get a sub and set crossover to around 80 Hz. The X4200W does not have multi channel analog audio inputs so you will have to use Denon Link with the DVD-A11, otherwise substitute it with the SR-7010 ($2199) or SR-7009 ($999), or the much more expensive X7200W.

 

[Luca Sichel Turco]

Thank you Peng for your message and suggestions.
At the moment I don't feel like the Z9 is struggling musically for what I do.
I do think that adding a bass will improve things and I will take up on your advice.
As for the route to modernize my options, I really would like to make the Z9 work a little longer, so would prefer to get a pre-amp letting the Z9 drive the speakers. Hope to find the best way to do it.
Thanks all for your help.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you all for the comments.
My setup: Room is 50sq/m, rooftop with wood board ceilings.
Speakers are JBL TiK series (2x 6k, 2x 2k, 1x center) no sub.
Source: Denon DVD-A11
Use: mainly movies and classical/jazz music.
I would like to update my source to Oppo BDP 103D Darbee Ed.
The need will be to get latest connectivity HDMI and possibly wi-fi, Dolby HD and DTS HD.
So my idea was to get a pre amp that can match the source and can integrate well with the RZ9 used as a pure amp.
Is that a sensible thing to try?
Thx to all in advance.

To me your plan makes no sense. Although the Z29 has preouts, it has no means of accessing the power amp stages directly.

So you can not use it as a pure power amp. If you bought another receiver with pre outs or an AV preamp, you would have to connect it to a line input. Therefore you would be cascading two preamps. It is the high gain pre amp sections where most of the noise comes from. So you will have a system with a degraded signal to noise ratio.

The fact is that older receivers with no HDMI inputs are really pretty much useless now.

If you are expert you could isolate the amp inputs and change the preouts to power amp ins. That is what it would really take to do what you want.

If you can not do the above then get a modern receiver or get a pre/pro and external power amps.

 

[PENG]

To me your plan makes no sense. Although the Z29 has preouts, it has no means of accessing the power amp stages directly.

So you can not use it as a pure power amp. If you bought another receiver with pre outs or an AV preamp, you would have to connect it to a line input. Therefore you would be cascading two preamps. It is the high gain pre amp sections where most of the noise comes from. So you will have a system with a degraded signal to noise ratio.

The fact is that older receivers with no HDMI inputs are really pretty much useless now.

If you are expert you could isolate the amp inputs and change the preouts to power amp ins. That is what it would really take to do what you want.

If you can not do the above then get a modern receiver or get a pre/pro and external power amps.

He can access the power amp by using the multichannel analog in, but I agree that is a lot of inconvenience for no practical reasons.

 

[TLS Guy]

He can access the power amp by using the multichannel analog in, but I agree that is a lot of inconvenience for no practical reasons.

That will still go though the preamp stage as the volume control is still in circuit.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I've had my Z9 for quite a while now. You could just run all your HDMI right to your monitor/ tv like I do. Then run all the opticals right to the Z9. And I also have a remote control programed, all you do is hit one button, it changes the input on the TV and Z9.

 

[PENG]

That will still go though the preamp stage as the volume control is still in circuit.

Yep, got to set volume to maximum and use it as a power amp very carefully, I wouldn't do it myself for sure.

 

[TLS Guy]

I've had my Z9 for quite a while now. You could just run all your HDMI right to your monitor/ tv like I do. Then run all the opticals right to the Z9. And I also have a remote control programed, all you do is hit one button, it changes the input on the TV and Z9.

The problem with that is you are limited to lossy codecs. That connection will not pass Dolby True HD or DTS Master Audio. If you don't care about that, then that is OK, unless you run into a program that will not output audio from the TV, which is now allowed. I have not heard of anyone running into that problem yet, though.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Very true, I was just letting the individual know if you don't care about true HD, and all these other features that to me don't even make that big of a difference, then use it the way that I do. I use the Yamaha movie theater mode SCI-FI. and love it. However the mode is calibrated to the Yamaha app, and it made a huge difference compared to ( straight). I guess the point of this is, I prefer those movie modes compared to all these new DTS true HD Master audio formats. He might as well if he tried it

 

[TLS Guy]

Very true, I was just letting the individual know if you don't care about true HD, and all these other features that to me don't even make that big of a difference, then use it the way that I do. I use the Yamaha movie theater mode SCI-FI. and love it. However the mode is calibrated to the Yamaha app, and it made a huge difference compared to ( straight). I guess the point of this is, I prefer those movie modes compared to all these new DTS true HD Master audio formats. He might as well if he tried it

If that is so then I suspect there is something seriously wrong with your set up. Discrete channels should have no trouble besting synthed ones.

 

[Luca Sichel Turco]

wow.. thanks to John Fickel for your helpful comments.
But I guess the assessment of TLS Guy is brutal:
"The fact is that older receivers with no HDMI inputs are really pretty much useless now."
Now I'm not quite ready to send my Z9 to the retirement home, nor do I have the will to invest heavily in a new A/V receiver just yet.
So my question is: How can I maximize my listening experience with my Z9 and a modern day source like the Oppo?
Also, for future reference, i.e. when I decide to take the plunge and buy a new system: how would you future proof yourself as best as you can in order to avoid the nasty feeling of having a beautiful machine that can't be used anymore cause it's dated?
thx everyone for your posts

 

[KEW]

The fact is that Yamaha chose not to give this AVR the function to do what you want it to (by not providing main amp inputs). Honestly, I don't think any AVR does this, (but never say never).
I think all "work around" options have been laid out.
TLSguy has pointed out that there is a compromise associated with each approach and explained that compromise. It is an unfortunate truth that if you don't have HDMI your AVR is obsolete. You are wanting to replace the pre-amp portion of your AVR primarily because it doesn't have HDMI, and it seems that keeping the Z-9 in your system will prevent you from fully utilizing the benefit of HDMI.
I understand having an attachment to a piece of gear that has served you well...just understand that from the standpoint of getting the best quality, you will be taking a step backwards with any of these work arounds.
The good news is that John Fickel's approach is free to try and the other options involve buying an AVR/Pre with modern HDMI functionality which will still be useful if you don't like the compromises.

 

[PENG]

So my question is: How can I maximize my listening experience with my Z9 and a modern day source like the Oppo?

Oppo's BDP typically have mult-channel analog outputs so you can easily use them to work with the Z9. You won't be able to use the Z9 to do EQ in that case but there are some EQ features you can use on the Oppo side.

Also, for future reference, i.e. when I decide to take the plunge and buy a new system: how would you future proof yourself as best as you can in order to avoid the nasty feeling of having a beautiful machine that can't be used anymore cause it's dated?
thx everyone for your posts

Personally, I switched to prepro/amp last time, but for future proofing it is actually much more cost effective to go with a good AVR such as the Denon AVR-X6200W, X7200W or the Marantz SR7010; and add a 2 or 3 channel power amp if more power is needed for the front stage. I really don't care much about the new gadgets but could still feel the pain when my 2 years old expensive flag ship prepro became theoretically obsolete late last year.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

JBL Ti6k specs here:
http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/jbl/ti6k.shtml
I didn't looked for Z9 power output to 6ohm, but it spec'd to provide 7x170w into 8ohm
So I don't power issue.
I agree with Peng on using Oppo as dac using analog outputs. That is best choice at the moment.
Next upgrade should be sub, if music is priority - a sealed one would do nicely.

I know OP is from europe most likely, but where specifically will affect which subs are available.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

The fact is that older receivers with no HDMI inputs are really pretty much useless now.

...

I guess I am lucky with that Onkyo 939 with amp inputs.