Baltimore

[herbu]

Look how the NYPD treated Bloomberg. Do they report to him, yes, but I have a feeling they are not following his directives to T.

I don't understand that. This from the NY Daily News, http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/bloomberg-terms-city-hall-crime-plunge-1950s-levels-article-1.1552545

"It's the undeniable, seemingly incongruous contradiction of Mike Bloomberg’s mayoralty: As crime plummeted, public criticism of his anti-crime efforts soared.

On Bloomberg’s watch, homicides plunged to the lowest levels since Elvis Presley played “The Ed Sullivan Show.” And city law enforcement, still reeling from the World Trade Center attacks, foiled repeated terrorist attempts.

But the crime-busting mayor also came under harsh attack for the Police Department’s controversial stop-and-frisk policy, which was blasted for racially profiling blacks and Hispanics. He also took hits for the NYPD’s surveillance of the Muslim community in the wake of 9/11.

“The bottom line is, crime is down to 1950s levels,” said Tom Reppetto, an NYPD historian and the former head of the Citizens Crime Commission. “Sixteen or more terrorist plots with no successes. The only problematic question is his relationship with the community."

 

[markw]

It's not hard to understand. Bloomberg stumbled on a way that obviously works when it comes to preventing crime before it happens.

"It's the undeniable, seemingly incongruous contradiction of Mike Bloomberg’s mayoralty: As crime plummeted, public criticism of his anti-crime efforts soared.
On Bloomberg’s watch, homicides plunged to the lowest levels since Elvis Presley played “The Ed Sullivan Show.” And city law enforcement, still reeling from the World Trade Center attacks, foiled repeated terrorist attempts.

So, his plan worked. You would think people would be happy, but no.

But the crime-busting mayor also came under harsh attack for the Police Department’s controversial stop-and-frisk policy, which was blasted for racially profiling blacks and Hispanics. He also took hits for the NYPD’s surveillance of the Muslim community in the wake of 9/11.

Obviously, in todays liberal society, political correctness trumps public safety.

"The bottom line is, crime is down to 1950s levels,” said Tom Reppetto, an NYPD historian and the former head of the Citizens Crime Commission. “Sixteen or more terrorist plots with no successes. The only problematic question is his relationship with the community."

QED. Apparently, Bloomberg was more concerned with his city's safety than the public's opinion of him. I gotta give him credit for that. Now, about those super-sized drinks, well...

 

[shadyJ]

Violent crime has been continuously dropping across the country ever since the 90's. No NY mayor can take credit for a national trend.

 

[markw]

You're not from around here, are ya?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-stop-and-frisks-drop-99-percent-shootings-increase-brooklyn-article-1.1905456

http://allenbwest.com/2014/07/nyc-stop-frisk-ends-violent-crime-soars-related/

 

[Chu Gai]

So, after one hung jury, three acquittals, the prosecuter has dropped all charges against the remaining officers. Freddie Gray's loving family got a settlement earlier. Remains to be be seen if the prosecuter will face disbarment.

 

[Swerd]

So, after one hung jury, three acquittals, the prosecuter has dropped all charges against the remaining officers. Freddie Gray's loving family got a settlement earlier. Remains to be be seen if the prosecuter will face disbarment.

The city of Baltimore settled out of court, last September, with Freddie Gray's family to the tune of $6.4 million. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-boe-20150908-story.html

"Under the proposed settlement, the city is accepting all civil liability in the April arrest and death of the 25-year-old Gray, who suffered a spinal injury while in police custody. The city does not acknowledge any wrongdoing by police, according to a statement from Rawlings-Blake."

"The Gray settlement exceeds the combined total of more than 120 other lawsuits brought against Baltimore police for alleged brutality and misconduct since 2011. State law generally caps such payments, but local officials can authorize larger awards."​

That prosecutor certainly has some 'splaining to do. Disbarment is unlikely because she didn't violate laws or legal ethics, but politically (State's Attorney in Maryland are politically appointed), her future is not bright.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/baltimore-prosecutors-drop-all-remaining-charges-in-freddie-gray-case/2016/07/27/b5c10f34-b655-4d40-87e6-80827e2f0e2d_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_freddiegray-10am:homepage/story

 

[GO-NAD!]

I find this case a bit bewildering. The city settles with his family for an astronomical amount, yet none of the officers (according to the courts) did anything wrong? Listening to the States Attorney on the news, she seemed to be sailing a bit close to the wind in her criticism of the judge.

 

[Swerd]

I find this case a bit bewildering. The city settles with his family for an astronomical amount, yet none of the officers (according to the courts) did anything wrong? Listening to the States Attorney on the news, she seemed to be sailing a bit close to the wind in her criticism of the judge.

I think most of us find it bewildering. I think the best explanation is a poorly funded and dysfunctional city government & police department. That, and the usual political maneuvering among ambitious politicians.

I earlier said the State's Attorney position in Baltimore is politically appointed; it could be an elected position. The young (35-year old) prosecutor is married to a Baltimore City Councilman who tried and failed to run for mayor last spring shortly after the Freddy Gray case exploded on the news. The existing mayor is leaving office after one term, without trying to run for re-election. Why anyone would be ambitious for power in that sad mess of a city is beyond me.

 

[Steve81]

I find this case a bit bewildering. The city settles with his family for an astronomical amount, yet none of the officers (according to the courts) did anything wrong?

It comes down to different standards of proof for civil law (a preponderance of evidence) vs criminal law (beyond a reasonable doubt). That "beyond a reasonable doubt" also becomes rather difficult when a prosecutor reaches for charges like second degree depraved heart murder.

 

[GO-NAD!]

It comes down to different standards of proof for civil law (a preponderance of evidence) vs criminal law (beyond a reasonable doubt). That "beyond a reasonable doubt" also becomes rather difficult when a prosecutor reaches for charges like second degree depraved heart murder.

I understand the difference between the standards of proof regarding civil vs criminal law, but that kind of settlement amount, I might expect after a criminal conviction. But, maybe the settlement amount has no correlation with civil or criminal responsibility. Regardless, the behaviour of the cops involved seemed pretty negligent to me. But, there may be more to the case than what I've seen in the media.

We're not exactly free of such issues up here:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/abdirahman-abdi-s-fatal-encounter-with-ottawa-police-1.3697454

 

[Steve81]

But, maybe the settlement amount has no correlation with civil or criminal responsibility.

Settlements correlates with anticipated civil liability. Criminal law is a whole different ballgame, not just in terms of standards of proof, but burden of proof, in terms of what constitutes a crime vs a tort, etc.

 

[Swerd]

Settlements correlates with anticipated civil liability. Criminal law is a whole different ballgame, not just in terms of standards of proof, but burden of proof, in terms of what constitutes a crime vs a tort, etc.

The $6.4 million was an out-of-court settlement made before the lawsuit went to court. It was a clear admission by Baltimore city lawyers that they thought they would do worse if the lawsuit went to trial.

Regardless, the behaviour of the cops involved seemed pretty negligent to me.

It was much more than negligence. The police in Baltimore have done the same type of thing often before. Those punishingly rough rides in police vans are no different than police beatings. In the past 5 or 10 years, Baltimore has paid out more than $50 million in out-of-court civil settlements for similar cases. However I don't know how many resulted in wrongful death.

That prosecutor tried to take on the police without having good enough evidence to stand up in a criminal trial. That's either naive inexperience or political posturing. Neither are acceptable.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Food for thought...

http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/could-insurance-bring-an-end-to-police-violence/

 

[Chu Gai]

The $6.4 million was an out-of-court settlement made before the lawsuit went to court. It was a clear admission by Baltimore city lawyers that they thought they would do worse if the lawsuit went to trial.

I don't know that they would've done worse but not only would there have been added expenses and this includes Freddie Gray's loving and distraught family who would also be looking at a hefty cut to their representation, but Baltimore at that time was a powder keg. Settle quickly, try the officers.

It was much more than negligence. The police in Baltimore have done the same type of thing often before. Those punishingly rough rides in police vans are no different than police beatings. In the past 5 or 10 years, Baltimore has paid out more than $50 million in out-of-court civil settlements for similar cases. However I don't know how many resulted in wrongful death.

Except that there was another person in the van with Freddie who reported hearing what sound lik violent thrashing where Gray was. The prosecuter went on the coroner's findings that the death was a homicide. Seeing that Gray had earlier instances of trying to inflict self harm, a more likely take on this is that he killed himself inadvertently.

That prosecutor tried to take on the police without having good enough evidence to stand up in a criminal trial. That's either naive inexperience or political posturing. Neither are acceptable.

True enough and the prosecuter also withheld exculpatory evidence. But she's good looking, black so she'll do well in the future. As to how Baltimore will do who knows.

 

[Swerd]

Except that there was another person in the van with Freddie who reported hearing what sound lik violent thrashing where Gray was. The prosecuter went on the coroner's findings that the death was a homicide. Seeing that Gray had earlier instances of trying to inflict self harm, a more likely take on this is that he killed himself inadvertently.

That other person's (another arrested person) testimony did not hold up against the coroner's findings, which included identification of the protruding steel screws or nuts of the cage inside the van that punctured Freddy Gray's skull, and how the ultimately fatal spine cord damage occurred. If I remember correctly the coroner said this damage was due to Gray being handcuffed & shackled at the ankles while lying on the floor of the steel cage as the van was driven in an erratic and violent manner. The coroner concluded homicide and not inadvertent self-inflicted death because the forces of impact were much greater than any that could have come from Gray's violent thrashing.

With that kind of coroner's report, I find it remarkable that the prosecutor failed to make any criminal case. If there is an insurance company behind the $50 million plus payoffs made by the city for it's police department, I hope they put pressure on them to change or deny them future coverage.

 

[Diesel57]

Settlements correlates with anticipated civil liability. Criminal law is a whole different ballgame, not just in terms of standards of proof, but burden of proof, in terms of what constitutes a crime vs a tort, etc.

It don't get any clearer than that...

 

[Chu Gai]

According to a witness, the coroner subsequently called it an accident.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-rejects-bid-drop-charges-against-baltimore-cop-152902037.html

 

[Swerd]

According to a witness, the coroner subsequently called it an accident.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-rejects-bid-drop-charges-against-baltimore-cop-152902037.html

Read the entire article and don't cherry pick statements. The impact of the various testimonies don't lead to clear conclusions. Regardless of what that witness (Taylor, a police detective) said, the same article said:

"(Dr.) Allan, an assistant medical examiner, has stood by her judgment that Gray's death was a homicide."

"Another defense witness, Donta Allen, who was transported with Gray in the van but separated from him by a metal partition, initially said on Thursday he remembered nothing about the ride.

On further questioning by prosecutors however, he said that when the van stopped at a Baltimore police station, he heard someone say they gave Gray "a run for his money" after he was found unconscious.

Police have said Allen told investigators Gray was thrashing around in the van. Allen recanted that statement in court, saying he never hear loud banging, adding he was high on heroin and Xanax when he gave his initial police report."

In several trials the police were found not guilty, or there was no verdict, a hung jury. Witnesses including police detectives and an arrested Donta Allen, gave conflicting testimonies at different times. Were the police covering up and was Donta Allen put under pressure by police or prosecutors? We don't know but they are legitimate and unanswered questions. One of these conclusions are possible, maybe both:

1. The police were covering up a long-standing and illegal practice of handing out vigilante justice by giving 'rough rides' to people they arrest.
2. The prosecutors over-reached.

 

[herbu]

One of these conclusions are possible, maybe both:

1. The police were covering up a long-standing and illegal practice of handing out vigilante justice by giving 'rough rides' to people they arrest.
2. The prosecutors over-reached.

Agree.