center channel in 2channel stereo music??

Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
I understand that of course. I also understand that true stereo which doesn't feed a center channel is much better at creating the soundstage because not all vocals come from front center stage, not all drums are placed center rear and I rather enjoy the sax from right rear, keyboards left front, bongos right front, etc. With classical music recorded well we get first violin, brass, woodwind, percussion, etc all coming from where they should if I were sitting in the audience during a live performance. Or surprisingly close to it.

As an example when I first installed my updated system late last year one of the first recordings I played was Bruce Springsteen's song "Tunnel Of Love" in 2.1 stereo. Perhaps a particularly well done recording in terms of staging, the placement of the various instruments and singers is so incredible that I still use that as a demo for my system.

We get really well defined staging this way, and I consider it to be part of the performance as the team who made the recording intended.

Each listener may prefer something else out of it. It's clear your preference is wrap-around sound. Continue to enjoy it, I won't try to sway you.
I agree completely. If you have good speakers properly set up and positioned, the imaging can be very good and give you a very good representation of the sound stage. I've tried both with my system and find the 5ch stereo option more pleasing. The bass response also tightens up quite nicely too. Like you said, it's really a personal choice. The only source I listen to in 2.2 (2 subs) channel is HDCD sources. On my Rotel, HDCD's will not play in 5ch stereo and it defaults to 2 channel only. However, the imaging is very nice.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
I do not own any native 5.1 music sources...that I know of. As close as I get is maybe audio off some Blu-Ray discs, but those are inconvenient for me. My main source is all the CD's and files I've bought and downloaded onto my Bluesound Vault, and Tidal Hi-Fi streaming.

While I appreciate that others may enjoy multi-channel music, I don't have enough of it to worry about it. I'm reluctant to shop for music in that format if it costs more than the streaming, used CD's, and some new 2-channel stuff I've been spending on.
 
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
I do not own any native 5.1 music sources...that I know of. As close as I get is maybe audio off some Blu-Ray discs, but those are inconvenient for me. My main source is all the CD's and files I've bought and downloaded onto my Bluesound Vault, and Tidal Hi-Fi streaming.

While I appreciate that others may enjoy multi-channel music, I don't have enough of it to worry about it. I'm reluctant to shop for music in that format if it costs more than the streaming, used CD's, and some new 2-channel stuff I've been spending on.
I largely listen to CD's myself on my Rotel using it's 5ch stereo mode. Listening to Blu Ray's encoded in true 5 channel DTS or Dolby Digital is a whole other ball of wax. Those discs are usually recorded with a higher bit and sampling rate and typically out perform CD's. They sound really sweet honestly and produce a true discrete 5 channel output.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
In most avrs 5ch stereo or party mode is a mono signal sent to all speakers so when your having a party you don't have to crank it to get even sound . It's really not intended for critical listening or multi channel audio.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
In most avrs 5ch stereo or party mode is a mono signal sent to all speakers so when your having a party you don't have to crank it to get even sound . It's really not intended for critical listening or multi channel audio.
IME on several avrs I've owned/own, it is actually 2ch stereo, with the center getting a mixed signal.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I have the Rotel RSX-1057
Don't see anything about the 5ch stereo being matrixed, just the center channel mixed/summed, from your manual:
Distributes a stereo signal to 5.1 channel systems. The left channel signal is sent, unchanged, to the front left and surround left speakers. The right channel is sent to the front right and surround right speakers. A mono sum of the two channels is sent to the center channel speaker.
 
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
Don't see anything about the 5ch stereo being matrixed, just the center channel mixed/summed, from your manual:
Distributes a stereo signal to 5.1 channel systems. The left channel signal is sent, unchanged, to the front left and surround left speakers. The right channel is sent to the front right and surround right speakers. A mono sum of the two channels is sent to the center channel speaker.
That is correct. Maybe the term 'Matrixed' was incorrect. Basically, it sends anything mono to the center but the left and right stereo stuff is unchanged. That same left and right stereo signal is sent to the rears.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Basically, it sends anything mono to the center but the left and right stereo stuff is unchanged
That's different than summing the left & right and sending it to the center.
Are you saying your Rotel has the smarts to compare the left & right signals, take only what is identical and send it to the center?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
That's different than summing the left & right and sending it to the center.
Are you saying your Rotel has the smarts to compare the left & right signals, take only what is identical and send it to the center?
I think you're reading too much into Dan's comment since there's nothing "mono" until the avr sums it to be so....
 
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
That's different than summing the left & right and sending it to the center.
Are you saying your Rotel has the smarts to compare the left & right signals, take only what is identical and send it to the center?
Yes......that is exactly what it is doing. As far as I can tell, Anything mono (ie...vocals) is sent to the center speaker. Anything dedicated stereo unique to the left or right speaker stays there and is also sent to the rear surround left or right.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
When I want to fill a room with sound and hear it from another room for background purposes, I use 5 channel stereo although that in itself is a misnomer. However, when I sit to really listen to music, (not listening as background) its always only stereo as the imaging produced by the stereo pair doesn't get all hacked up with the center channel playing a mono mix derived by the AVR.
 
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
When I want to fill a room with sound and hear it from another room for background purposes, I use 5 channel stereo although that in itself is a misnomer. However, when I sit to really listen to music, (not listening as background) its always only stereo as the imaging produced by the stereo pair doesn't get all hacked up with the center channel playing a mono mix derived by the AVR.
Understood. There are many dedicated 2ch stereo listeners out there. Although when I play my system in 2ch stereo it images quite well (So well that it sounds like my center channel is operating but it's not!), I find the bass tightens up better in 5ch stereo and the overall clarity of the sound is better. But, that's just my system, amp and speakers talking.........not anyone else's .
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Yes......that is exactly what it is doing. As far as I can tell, Anything mono (ie...vocals) is sent to the center speaker.
I'd be surprised. Do a little research. I think you'll find your "5ch stereo mode" actually sums the left & right and sends everything to the center speaker.
 
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
You may be right. Frankly, I don't really care to be honest. When my system is run in 5ch stereo, the vocals (and center stage) come out nice and clear out of my massive center channel speaker and are clear and articulate. The dedicated left and right stereo stuff come out of the left and right speakers as well as my surrounds with a tad of delay. It's wonderful to be honest!!
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
What it only does is take anything mono and sends it to the center channel speaker.
herbu said:
I think you'll find your "5ch stereo mode" actually sums the left & right and sends everything to the center speaker.
You may be right. Frankly, I don't really care
Dan, remember this is an audiophile forum. People come here for accurate information and advice. We should be careful to distinguish between, "This is what I like", and "This is how the system works".
 
Dan Madden

Dan Madden

Audioholic
Dan, remember this is an audiophile forum. People come here for accurate information and advice. We should be careful to distinguish between, "This is what I like", and "This is how the system works".
Apologies oh wise Samurai !! However, if I'm wrong, I find it VERY odd that vocals in 5ch stereo seem to come out of ONLY my center channel speaker with all speakers level matched? Would that not indicate that it is sending mono information (identical audio from left and right) only to the center?
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
Vocals ONLY out of the center channel? How does that work out with groups or duets then?

With 2 channel stereo I get distinct staging and point source of the different voices in an arrangement, all the while getting a seamless "front & center" where and when it's supposed to be there.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Vocals ONLY out of the center channel? How does that work out with groups or duets then?

With 2 channel stereo I get distinct staging and point source of the different voices in an arrangement, all the while getting a seamless "front & center" where and when it's supposed to be there.
His assumption would be that stereo recordings are object based, which would be foolish.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
I also want to experience what it means when "bass tightens up." In my mind I take that to mean it's more restricted, less deep and/or lower SPL.

I've tried some 5.1 in various modes. Nothing about it impressed me any more than music in a doctor's office would.
 
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