center channel in 2channel stereo music??

[markeh]

I recently purchased a Yamaha 1050 and KEF R300 speakers. Mostly to listen to music (classical and jazz), and the occasional movie.

I've been thinking about a center channel speaker, mostly to improve dialogue audibility and presence during movies. I find that voices seem a little weak in the current setup.

I'm curious what the center channel does when playing 2-channel stereo music??

thnx,


.

 

[markw]

Keep in mind that two channel music, or stereo, contains no center channel. Therefore, whatever you might get out of there is artificially created. Some people like it, some don't mind it, and some have no use for it. Personally, I'm in that last group.

A center channel does add a lot to media that has a native center channel, like movies through a true multi-channel receiver.

Fortunately, all AVR's offer a way to just play the two front channels just for just this purpose.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I recently purchased a Yamaha 1050 and KEF R300 speakers. Mostly to listen to music (classical and jazz), and the occasional movie.

I've been thinking about a center channel speaker, mostly to improve dialogue audibility and presence during movies. I find that voices seem a little weak in the current setup.

I'm curious what the center channel does when playing 2-channel stereo music??

thnx,


.

Well, if you strictly set the receiver for stereo, no dolby prologic processing, most likely nothing in the center. But, if you do use prologic processing, the signals that are the same, same phase, etc, in the left and right will be steered to the center speaker. Any dialog, a singer, should be in the center speaker with prologic.

 

[KenM10759]

I have a 5.1 system consisting of KEF R500 mains, R200c center and R100 surrounds. My NAD receiver has three modes that do not feed the center speaker, only one of which does use the surrounds. Stereo mode uses main L-R speakers and subwoofer. Analog Bypass (a.k.a "direct") mode cuts out the sub and sends the full range signal to the mains. "Enhanced Stereo" uses the sub and sends left channel signal to left front and left surround, right channel signal to front right and right surround.

Your Yamaha should have similar for stereo with sub (2.1) and I know it has "pure direct" for use without.

BTW, nice speakers, those R300's!

 

[herbu]

I've been thinking about a center channel speaker, mostly to improve dialogue audibility and presence during movies. I find that voices seem a little weak in the current setup.

I'm curious what the center channel does when playing 2-channel stereo music??

These guys are all right.
1. There is no center channel in 2-channel stereo music. Stereo is your Left Front and Right Front speaker. So adding a Center speaker will do nothing to your stereo music.

2. However, a Center speaker is exactly intended for dialogue audibility in TV/movies. Using any of the surround formats in your receiver, almost ALL dialog will be sent to your Center speaker. Even if you have the best Left/Right speakers in the world, a Center speaker allows you to separately adjust the dialog levels for your best result. Many receivers even have a "Voice Enhance" adjustment, (or something like that). It simply adjusts the Center volume relative to the other speakers. And even without that feature you can still manually adjust the Center volume.

So if you, like many people including my wife and I, find that voices seem a little weak in TV/Movies, a Center speaker is precisely what the doctor recommends. And you don't have to worry about it messing up your stereo music.

 

[markeh]

Thanks for the input.
I think given my use, I shouldn't spend too much for the center channel, vs the KEF left-right, and the Definitive sub.

The sub doesn't seem to contribute much to a Mozart string quartet, but it's really incredible during those movie explosions....
.

 

[KenM10759]

If you were (or are) anywhere near me I'd invite you over to hear my system with the R200c center speaker in play and not.

If you were ever to play "music oriented" Blu-Ray disks such as Eric Clapton's Crossroads you'd know how important quality sound from the center can be.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

The sub doesn't seem to contribute much to a Mozart string quartet, but it's really incredible during those movie explosions....
.

How much music below 80Hz in that string quartet and how powerful is it.

 

[herbu]

I think given my use, I shouldn't spend too much for the center channel, vs the KEF left-right, and the Definitive sub.

Relative to good L/R and sub, you are right. A good Center will cost less. However, don't be too eager to scrimp here. Remember, almost all voices in TV/movies will come from that Center... and not just voices.

Think of it this way. When the sound engineer is creating a TV/Movie soundtrack, he usually uses 5 channels... Front L/R, Center, & Surround L/R. His goal is to make it sound like you are there in the TV. So imagine you're sitting there with dozens of soundtracks, deciding to which speaker you will send each. How do you decide?

Well, look at the screen. What is the origin/location of each sound? Is the origin of that sound actually something happening on the screen? If yes, that sound goes to the Center, (because the Center is placed just under/over your screen). So when the actor on screen speaks, the sound seems like it is really coming from him.

Is the origin of the sound somewhere to the left of the screen? If yes, put it in the Left speaker. And on and on.

Now consider this. In a TV/Movie, how much action happens off screen? Certainly some. Somebody opens a door. A car horn blows. A doorbell rings. A floorboard creaks. But the vast majority of sound emanates from something happening on screen, both voices and sound effects. So the vast majority of sound in TV/Movies goes to your Center speaker.

Keep this in mind when picking your Center. You may only use your system for TV/Movies 10-20% of the time. But when you do, you'll use your Center 90% of the time.

 

[Dan Madden]

I listen to all my music in 5 channel stereo and love it. You might like it too. In that case, I would recommend a really good center channel speaker and preferably one of the same series as your main speakers for seamless sound.

 

[KenM10759]

I know I wouldn't like 5.1 music all the time...at all. No soundstage, no imaging, no resemblance to how the recording engineer produced it.

Unless by 5.1 you mean you only listen to/watch Blu-Ray concert programs.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I know I wouldn't like 5.1 music all the time...at all. No soundstage, no imaging, no resemblance to how the recording engineer produced it.

Unless by 5.1 you mean you only listen to/watch Blu-Ray concert programs.

Not sure this is in general or response to Dan.
He posted 5 ch stereo which is different from using prologic processing that does give great soundstage, etc. I really like the presentation. Carmina Burana is an interesting example when the male singer is in the center speaker, then a bit later the orchestra kicks in the L/R speakers and some effect in the surround

 

[KenM10759]

In what format is the source file found? What do you use to play it, how much music is available in that format and at what cost?

 

[mtrycrafts]

In what format is the source file found? What do you use to play it, how much music is available in that format and at what cost?

I only play CD format from the disc itself. Pro logic does a very nice job with CDs

 

[KenM10759]

For kicks I'll try setting my receiver to run ProLogic and play a CD, then play it again with my receiver's proprietary NAD "Enhanced Stereo" to hear the difference. With the Enhanced Stereo I have it set to not use the center speaker, though I can easily go to the setup menu and turn it on.

I occasionally play some recordings in Enhanced Stereo, where I get front mains, rear surrounds and sub. There are some that sound somewhat cool, though soundstage as I know it, is gone. My main use of it is when I'm moving around the house or anywhere not in the main listening position.

My receiver also has NEO: 6 Music or Dolby PL IIx Music modes (plus more modes for movies.) Notable is that in my receiver's manual it specifically states, and I quote:

"Two-channel recordings, whether stereo or surround-encoded, are reproduced with Dolby Pro Logic surround processing, yielding output to front left/right, center and discrete left/right surround channels (assuming these are present in the current “Speaker Configuration”). The surround channel is monophonic, but it is reproduced in both surround speakers."

I don't know what receiver or pre-processor you are using, but if Dolby Pro Logic is the same, you aren't getting stereo out of the rear channels and it's modified to feed partial/combined left & right channel signals to the front three.

I just want to hear what you are hearing. I expect I will still prefer the excellent stereo imaging I get with my speakers in purely stereo (2.1) mode.

 

[Dan Madden]

Not sure this is in general or response to Dan.
He posted 5 ch stereo which is different from using prologic processing that does give great soundstage, etc. I really like the presentation. Carmina Burana is an interesting example when the male singer is in the center speaker, then a bit later the orchestra kicks in the L/R speakers and some effect in the surround

Exactly ! My Rotel plays music in a straight 5.1ch matrix. I've never liked Pro-Logic processing for music but straight 5ch stereo on my Rotel plays my CD's really well. Bare in mind that ALL my speakers are exactly the same.......same drivers of the same size (Including the center channel) so the sound is seamless.

 

[KenM10759]

It's perhaps just semantics but I'm confused as to how this can be considered stereo. By definition stereo is two channels of sound coming out of two speakers, hitting your two ears from two separated sources and your brain subconsciously creating placement and depth to a soundstage.

I never considered sound coming out of the multiple speakers in my car to sound bad, but also never considered it to be stereo. It's just all-enveloping sound, not something I can describe as stereo. I also understand that for a lot of people the term "stereo" has come to mean the black boxes and speakers as a whole, or in days past that large wooden credenza along the wall in the living room rather than a form of sound presentation.

When I was a teen my mom used to scream at me to "Turn down that damned stereo!". Now it's my wife telling me the same thing.

 

[Dan Madden]

You are correct. 2ch stereo is just that......2 channels. All 5ch stereo is doing is taking that 2ch signal and matrixing it into 5ch operation. What it only does is take anything mono and sends it to the center channel speaker. Anything dedicated left or right is sent to the left or right main and surrounds simultaneously.

What this kind of does is a 'forced' imaging using the center channel.......putting the vocals directly into the center stage.

 

[KenM10759]

I understand that of course. I also understand that true stereo which doesn't feed a center channel is much better at creating the soundstage because not all vocals come from front center stage, not all drums are placed center rear and I rather enjoy the sax from right rear, keyboards left front, bongos right front, etc. With classical music recorded well we get first violin, brass, woodwind, percussion, etc all coming from where they should if I were sitting in the audience during a live performance. Or surprisingly close to it.

As an example when I first installed my updated system late last year one of the first recordings I played was Bruce Springsteen's song "Tunnel Of Love" in 2.1 stereo. Perhaps a particularly well done recording in terms of staging, the placement of the various instruments and singers is so incredible that I still use that as a demo for my system.

We get really well defined staging this way, and I consider it to be part of the performance as the team who made the recording intended.

Each listener may prefer something else out of it. It's clear your preference is wrap-around sound. Continue to enjoy it, I won't try to sway you.

 

[lovinthehd]

You are correct. 2ch stereo is just that......2 channels. All 5ch stereo is doing is taking that 2ch signal and matrixing it into 5ch operation. What it only does is take anything mono and sends it to the center channel speaker. Anything dedicated left or right is sent to the left or right main and surrounds simultaneously.

What this kind of does is a 'forced' imaging using the center channel.......putting the vocals directly into the center stage.

In most avrs there's a difference between matrixed 5.1 and multi-ch stereo. Which Rotel model do you have?