Mass shooting in Orlando - Politics

[KEW]

It is not "common sense" if the left and right don't agree. This has become a term people use to convince others that anyone who disagrees doesn't have it.

Personally, I think there is more agreement between the right and left than most people believe.
The problem is media looks to the extremists to find their talking heads because it sells better.
The extremists on both sides is a very high bar for common sense!

 

[markw]

I still wanna know how this nut job was able to pass a background check to be able to buy these weapons when he was twice on the watch list and reported by both his employer and Disney for being a suspicious character.

Was information intentionally erased before the investigation, or was it denied to, or ignored by the investigating agency?

So, I must conclude that these agencies are as responsible for this tragedy as he was.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I still wanna know how this nut job was able to pass a background check to be able to buy these weapons when he was twice on the watch list and reported by both his employer and Disney for being a suspicious character.

Was information intentionally erased before the investigation, or was it denied to, or ignored by the investigating agency?

So, I must conclude that these agencies are as responsible for this tragedy as he was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

 

[Rickster71]

How did the "legit gun control" help in Paris or London? They used bombs in the Brussels airport.
Criminals don't follow laws, since the beginning of time they never have.
Murder is already against the law... what New Law would a criminal suddenly follow?

How would gun ownership help in those situations? We are talking about shooting not bombings.

By not answering my question, you actually did.
Nice try.

 

[KEW]

As I understand it, you'd need an open bolt weapon to have something that's "readily converted" to full auto. As you'll note from the wiki entry, those haven't been legal in some time. Wiki's National Firearms Act entry provides a little more clarification

In any case, it takes more than grinding down a sear to make a useful (read: selective fire) automatic weapon that's not likely to just blow up in your face. I'd suggest the latter part is what you're likely to get if you take advice on modifying firearms from kids on youtube.

All I can say is that I have had my hands on two AK-47's (A few decades ago), they had both been converted (and functioned effectively). I cannot vouch for how they did it. At one point it involved getting a specific component made at a machine shop and replacing the stock component.
It looks like a kit like this would have done the trick:
http://armsofamerica.com/fullautofirecontrolgroup-3499allnfarulesapply.aspx

Note: I read a little more and both of these conversions were done pre '86 when the weapons being sold were more easily converted. I did not understand that there had been modifications to the hardware when someone here buys an AK-47 from when I was messing around with this stuff.

 

[Chu Gai]

Personally, I think there is more agreement between the right and left than most people believe.
The problem is media looks to the extremists to find their talking heads because it sells better.
The extremists on both sides is a very high bar for common sense!

I think you're right, Kurt. I've heard that when various matters are discussed in Congress in a more intimate setting without the public eye's rapt scrutiny, they behave rationally. Once you've got the news outlets, it becomes posturing to their respective bases.

 

[Rickster71]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

My wife and I deal with State, Federal and local government agencies daily.
The level of incompetence is, to say the least, very frustrating.

 

[KEW]

It has also been reported that the shooter recently attempted to buy body armor, but the store clerk or owner refused to sell it to him.

That is one positive on this.
It would be good to hear more about this!
I wonder what the store clerk/owner saw to decide not to sell?

 

[Chu Gai]

Afghan children celebrating the murders at Orlando. Pretty sure they're not Amish. From the terrormonitor Twitter page.

 

[Steve81]

Up here, semi-automatic rifles are restricted weapons if the barrel is less than 18.5" and/or the stock can be folded/telescoped so that the overall length is less than 26" and can still be fired.

Looks like similar regs here:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/what-firearms-are-regulated-under-nfa

 

[KEW]

Afghan children celebrating the murders at Orlando. Pretty sure they're not Amish. From the terrormonitor Twitter page.

Looks staged to me, like some adult gathered them to pose with signs. Kids don't celebrate by staring at a camera and the smiles are missing.
If the point is that there are people in Afghanistan who are happy to see an act of terror on American soil... no doubt!
If the point is that children in Afghanistan heard about it and started dancing in the streets, I sure don't see evidence of that here.

Don't misunderstand my observations. If their parents are happy about the deaths, I'm sure their kids are happy about it as well. But I am very skeptical that kids who are celebrating something would ever end up looking like this photo!

 

[mtrycrafts]

That is one positive on this.
It would be good to hear more about this!
I wonder what the store clerk/owner saw to decide not to sell?

He didn't have any in stock or would have solde that also.

 

[Steve81]

It looks like a kit like this would have done the trick: http://armsofamerica.com/fullautofirecontrolgroup-3499allnfarulesapply.aspx

Potentially. These days, those kits are regulated as well (hence that NFA rules bit).

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/are-parts-or-kits-which-would-convert-firearm-machinegun-subject-registration

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-private-citizen-register-firearm-not-previously-registered-national-firearms

Sales of those older firearms are also regulated.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-machine-guns-be-transferred-one-registered-owner-another

 

[everettT]

We know gun control doesn't stop lunatics. We know the federal government is so bloated it's ineffective. Two suggestions I've had for years are these :
Have states handle all firearm sales
Have manufacturers handle firearm sales

These in conjunction with a federal and state database for flagged individuals would satisfy all the current talk. The lack of communication and the multiple bureaucracies bog down current laws.

 

[everettT]

http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/06/give-up-your-guns-drudge-takes-on-dhs-you-go-first/

 

[Alex2507]

How would gun ownership help in those situations?

Gun ownership would make those countries better places to die in.

 

[herbu]

I would be leery linking a Constitutionally guaranteed right to an FBI Watchlist or No-Fly list.

Right now we have a very clearly defined set of criteria one must meet to purchase or own a firearm. For some reason our govt chooses not to enforce those requirements, not to prosecute violators, and not to heartily prosecute any crime committed with a firearm. Indeed, we see states restoring lost rights to convicted felons. Yet I see discussions about Watchlists and No-Fly lists?

Who controls the Watchlist or No-Fly list? Is there only one of each list? How does a name get on them... or off them? How would we feel about a govt watchlist that determines some individuals who are not allowed to worship in a mosque? That's another Constitutionally guaranteed right. Or how about an FBI list that decides some people can be retried for a crime of which they were previously acquitted? Another guarantee.

Please don't waste time arguing about my analogies. I'm just saying I am leery of letting some watchlist or no-fly list, created and controlled in secret by a govt institution, revoke a Constitutionally guaranteed right. It is a slippery slope.

 

[everettT]

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/09/09/8-ways-can-end-up-on-no-fly-list.html

 

[herbu]

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/09/09/8-ways-can-end-up-on-no-fly-list.html

Controlling gun ownership this way is BHO's and Hillary's wet dream.

 

[Chu Gai]

Wikipedia has a summary of the No Fly List. According to some data, of the people who are on the list, those that have applied for a gun, 90% have been successful. I don't know what percentage of those have committed a crime using a firearm.