Mass shooting in Orlando - Politics

[Rickster71]

...The thing that carried out this tragedy was self a loathing closeted gay man conflicted by his life style and religion. He was so confused that a few months ago he pledged allegiance to Al Nusra, an enemy of isis, then he pledged allegiance isis...

The FBI has found no evidence to support claims by those who say Mateen had gay lovers or communicated on gay dating apps, several law enforcement officials said.

In seeking to verify the reports, federal agents have culled Mateen's electronic devices, including a laptop computer and cellphone, as well as electronic communications of those who made the claims, law enforcement officials said.

So far, they have found no photographs, no text messages, no smartphone apps, no gay pornography and no cell-tower location data to suggest that Mateen — who was twice married to women and had a young son — conducted a secret gay life, the officials said.

The FBI is continuing to explore Mateen’s past, but investigators now believe the men who made the claims are not credible, or confused Mateen with someone else.

 

[markw]

Well, so much for that "self loathing gay" stuff. That just leaves angry homophobic muslim.

Here's one where a woman sitting on her porch was attacked with her own American flag by a burka wearing woman.

http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/muslim-attack-on-flag-waving-american-family-remains-mystery/#!

It's hard to not stereotype when so many live up to it.

 

[herbu]

Any specific legal rights and benefits you're referring to beyond being able to use the public bathroom you identify with? Are there numerous reports of transgendered individuals acting in a lewd manner/committing assault in women's restrooms, or do they by in large go in, do their business, and leave?

That's the only issue that puts a burr under my saddle. And no, I don't know of any current problems. In fact, it is not the transgendered that concern me about the law. If someone has made the commitment to surgery and hormones, they can use the restroom they want. It is the perverts and ne'er-do-wells whom I'm afraid will see it as a new opportunity.

And it is not specifically the restrooms. Women do their business in a closed stall and I don't think it is the greatest risk. Locker rooms in your neighborhood gym are a different story. And locker rooms in your local schools are even worse because they are kids, and because they don't have anywhere else to go.

Listen... People I know who are opposed to this law have no problem with LGBTs. It is only the media and the libs that paint us that way. Our problem is the bigger picture of allowing ALL men into ALL places where women are exposed, (both literally and figuratively). The women in my life appreciate the man-free privacy of a restroom, changing room and locker room. My wife would not shower or dress in a gym locker room that allowed men & women. I can't help but wonder what all the democrat women would do. Perhaps if it really does become law, the women's locker room will take the place of my Netflix subscription for me.

 

[Steve81]

It is the perverts and ne'er-do-wells whom I'm afraid will see it as a new opportunity.

How is it a new opportunity if unisex bathrooms already exist? As has been stated in this thread several times, when have criminals of that nature ever given a damn about laws and social norms in the first place?

Locker rooms in your neighborhood gym are a different story. And locker rooms in your local schools are even worse because they are kids, and because they don't have anywhere else to go.

They've already installed private stalls in public schools where the issue came up. It hasn't to date been abused by perverts as far as I've seen.

 

[herbu]

How is it a new opportunity if unisex bathrooms already exist?

Maybe I'm concerned about nothing. But the unisex bathrooms I've seen are a single person size, or maybe parent & child size. You go in and lock the door. Nobody can enter while you're in there. Much more prevalent are the multi-person facilities with a bank of stalls and sinks. You cannot lock the door.

Private stalls in locker rooms are a possibility. Who would use them? I don't think you want to require the man who identifies as a woman to use them. So the man is in the public area and the women use the private stalls. Seems like a lot of stalls and quite an expense born by taxpayers and business owners.

And these are not for the post-surgery people. These are to accommodate any man who simply says he identifies as a woman. I don't know how you would implement and manage such a policy. Could you challenge a man? How could you prove/disprove and who would be responsible to provide the proof?

I believe a girl/woman has a right to privacy in bathrooms/locker rooms. It has been practiced for thousands of years in all societies. I'm not at all convinced a man who says he feels like a woman has a right that trumps a woman's right to privacy. And since nobody knows what's in your mind unless you tell them, why can't a man use the men's facilities regardless of what's in his mind?

 

[Steve81]

But the unisex bathrooms I've seen are a single person size, or maybe parent & child size. You go in and lock the door. Nobody can enter while you're in there. Much more prevalent are the multi-person facilities with a bank of stalls and sinks. You cannot lock the door.

Multi-stall unisex bathrooms do exist these days. As in any multi-stall restroom, one can lock the stall so no one can enter while you're doing your business. This one was just a converted girls room.

Private stalls in locker rooms are a possibility. Who would use them?

As it sits now, the answer is usually anyone who wants to use them. Most people, particularly teenagers, aren't so secure with their bodies that they're fond of changing/showering in front of others, regardless of whether those other people happen to be of the same gender. In that sense, such a move doesn't benefit just transgender individuals.

Seems like a lot of stalls and quite an expense born by taxpayers and business owners.

In the schools implemented thus far, the expense has been stated to be minimal. They already had the stalls in inventory, and the labor was performed by their maintenance staff. And as mentioned, it's not just transgender people that benefit.

Could you challenge a man?

You don't really need too unless they're acting in a lewd manner/committing assault/etc. At that point, it doesn't really matter what they claim. Beyond that, it's really just a matter of making sure multi-stall bathrooms & locker rooms offer adequate privacy/security, which should be common sense anyway. It's not like I want other dudes watching me when I'm doing my business or showering either.

 

[Chu Gai]

And then there's this story.

ACLU LEADER QUITS AFTER DAUGHTERS ENCOUNTER MEN IN THE WOMEN’S RESTROOM

Maya Dillard Smith, interim director of the Georgia chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, has resigned over the ACLU’s position on who can use which public restrooms. The resignation occurred after her two daughters were traumatized by encountering men in the women’s restroom. Dillard Smith explained:

I have shared my personal experience of having taken my elementary school age daughters into a women’s restroom when shortly after three transgender young adults, over six feet [tall] with deep voices, entered. My children were visibly frightened, concerned about their safety and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer.

 

[Steve81]

ACLU LEADER QUITS AFTER DAUGHTERS ENCOUNTER MEN IN THE WOMEN’S RESTROOM

Would it be any easier for me to explain to my sons? Could such a situation not possibly frighten them?

If the 3 individuals had been relatively tall goth/alternative girls with lots of scary looking tattoos and piercings, would there be a practical difference?

 

[Chu Gai]

How old are your sons and if around the same age have you had that talk with them?

 

[Steve81]

How old are your sons and if around the same age have you had that talk with them?

The elder will be 5 this year, so too young to have any meaningful understanding of sexuality. That said, we do have talks about how people are different, and the issue crops up often enough and in a variety of ways.

 

[herbu]

Multi-stall unisex bathrooms do exist these days.

Well, that may be the way our society is going. Time will tell. I for one, am old and old fashioned. Most of the women in my family and life would be uncomfortable w/ co-ed facilities. I support and agree with them. That's why I oppose a law that requires it.

This kind of societal shift happens. Some people like it, some don't. BUT that doesn't mean the people who don't like it hate the supporters, or are ignorant, hateful neanderthals... in spite of what some say.

It is the thing that perhaps frustrates me the most. If a conservative disagrees with some women's issue, we hate women. Some black issue, we hate blacks. Some gay issue, we hate gays. Some immigration issue, we hate Mexicans or Muslims.

I learned something about another perspective on the "bathroom law" from this discussion. I really, really appreciate it. Quite often it is difficult to get past the animus long enough to actually hear and understand the other side.

Now, to summarize, here's what we learned:
1) Boys use the boy's bathroom.
2) Gun ownership is a right that shall not be infringed.
3) Immigrants to this country should follow our legal process.
Anything I missed?

 

[Ponzio]

Charlottesville anybody?

... and nary a word. Has this site become so devoid of reality?

 

[jinjuku]

Charlottesville anybody?

... and nary a word. Has this site become so devoid of reality?

Nope. Our humanity doesn't hinge on creating a thread for every travesty to happen.

 

[Pogre]

I was kinda thinking that too. I mean, this is an av site afterall.

 

[speakerman39]

I was kinda thinking that too. I mean, this is an av site afterall.

But hey my local grocer has the Boston Butt's for .99 a lbs. again......LOL!!!! You know what that means eh?


Cheers,

Phil

 

[shadyJ]

Charlottesville anybody?

... and nary a word. Has this site become so devoid of reality?

This site isn't heavily political, and I like it that way. The politics in this country is so insane right now that places like this are a nice break. If you want to make a political connection to home audio, here is a story for you. Home audio components will skyrocket in price if the USA impose tariffs on Chinese goods. That will make hi-fi sound more of a niche than it already is.

 

[Steve81]

Here's the politics I care about today. Who else is in a giving mood?

 

[KEW]

Has this site become so devoid of reality?

I think it is more a matter that the outside world has become too intensely full of reality!

 

[Ponzio]

I wasn't looking for a political argument ... at all. I was looking for some common American values across all political lines. I can only infer that we can't even agree that this young woman died in vain since "both sides" were wrong.

My poor beloved country.

 

[jinjuku]

Not sure what the perceived slight is. Sorry but not every wrong in our society is going to be addressed in forum.

It doesn't make anyone here less empathetic.

The thread has served it's purpose.