Why no Yamaha Turntable?

[YammyFan72]

There is a big resurgence of vinyl these days, more so then at anytime since they "offically" stopped mass producing vinyl in the late 80's early 90's. Some stores are now stocking vinyl that have never even considered stocking it before. I'm seeing more and more vinyl gear and accessories. There are new upstart companies like U-Turn Audio producing TT's that are made in the USA and most of the old stand-by A/V companies now have at least one TT in their line-ups. So my question is, and one which I don't expect an answer to, is when are we going to see a new Yamaha turntable?

This is all the more perplexing considering that Yamaha is one of the few companies out there that is still making traditional, full size, old school audio components. None of the others produce a separate AM/FM tuner anymore for example, which Yamaha still offers, but they have no TT? They don't even offer a cheap, crappy deck like most still do.

Heck, even Sony has an el cheapo deck, and they just came out with a new half way decent TT that can record vinyl into DSD 2.8 MHz or 5.6 MHz via USB, the PS-HX500. I thought they would've been the last to jump on the new vinyl bandwagon.

I'd love to add a decent Yammy TT to my system if they'd ever bother to come out with one.

 

[class a]

I had a Yamaha PF-800, one of the last TT's they made. I would check E-Bay for one. They are pretty rare birds. Excellent well built TT's. Depending on condition they go for between $400-$500. They can easily compete w/new spinners at double the price.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe Yamaha doesn't see it as being profitable to retool or something along those lines? Or don't see the current fad continuing significantly, or perhaps waiting until there's more support on the vinyl production end?

 

[Swerd]

There is a big resurgence of vinyl these days, more so then at anytime since they "offically" stopped mass producing vinyl in the late 80's early 90's.

Whenever I hear someone talking about the "big resurgence" in vinyl, it's important to ask compared to what? Here is bar graph of vinyl record sales (vertical scale is in millions of items), year-by-year 1993-2013.

And here are vinyl sales (in millions of dollars) year-by-year for 1973-2014. What big resurgence?

 

[3db]

Whenever I hear someone talking about the "big resurgence" in vinyl, it's important to ask compared to what? Here is bar graph of vinyl record sales (vertical scale is in millions of items), year-by-year 1993-2013.

And here are vinyl sales (in millions of dollars) year-by-year for 1973-2014. What big resurgence?

Vinyl sales are increasing and will continue to do so. New pressing equipment is being manufactured, new labels are springing up so that is evidence that vinyl will continue to grow. I don't believe this is a fad. Vinyl will outlive the CD as a medium that I'm sure. However, I'm also realistic and I know it will never reach the levels it had before CD came to market.

 

[YammyFan72]

Whenever I hear someone talking about the "big resurgence" in vinyl, it's important to ask compared to what? Here is bar graph of vinyl record sales (vertical scale is in millions of items), year-by-year 1993-2013.

And here are vinyl sales (in millions of dollars) year-by-year for 1973-2014. What big resurgence?

When I say "big resurgence in vinyl" I'm comparing it to vinyl sales since vinyl "offically" stopped being mass produced in the early 1990's, not to any other time period or to any other format. Of course vinyl was a big seller before the invent of CD. No big surprise there.

Also, I'm not sure I can trust these charts. If they are true, then there are a lot of record companies, stores, and manufacturers that are stupidly taking a huge risk in investing and producing vinyl. There must be something driving this recent market trend. SOMEBODY must be buying them.

And it's not the old fogies who are mainly buying them out of nostalgia these days, but the younger "hipsters" that are driving the market. If they grew up listening to MP3's on their ipods and phones with their one little earbud, I can understand why they would be impressed with vinyl.

 

[3db]

. SOMEBODY must be buying them.

I'm doing my part

 

[Swerd]

Also, I'm not sure I can trust these charts.

Why wouldn't you trust them? They're both made from the same data. Only the time frame and the vertical scales are different.

When you compare today's vinyl sales, they're a tiny drop-in-the-bucket compared to those of the past.

True, neither of those charts can predict the future, but to ignore all of the past data when trying to guess future trends would be a big mistake. Perhaps Yamaha was thinking that when they chose to stay out of the turntable business.

Besides, as you pointed out, it's not like there is a lack of choice for new turntables .

 

[everettT]

Ask a someone born in the mid 80s to mid 90s to buy a recording that doesn't travel with them. I like vinyl but their is no way it's a viable medium for the future, just niche for most of us old enough to remember and appreciate.

 

[cpd]

Ask a someone born in the mid 80s to mid 90s to buy a recording that doesn't travel with them. I like vinyl but their is no way it's a viable medium for the future, just niche for most of us old enough to remember and appreciate.

If this were true then vinyl sales would not be rising while CD sales are plummeting. Nowadays, the portability of media based music is irrelevant. We all have the entire catalog of recorded music sitting right there in a device in our pocket about the size of a cassette tape. When I buy an album, I am buying it only for home use. I threw away my last CaseLogic CD wallet over a decade ago.

Vinyl may be niche, but it has already proven to be a viable format for the future, and although anecdotal, I see people of all ages shopping for vinyl when I am out doing the same.

 

[lovinthehd]

When I say "big resurgence in vinyl" I'm comparing it to vinyl sales since vinyl "offically" stopped being mass produced in the early 1990's, not to any other time period or to any other format. Of course vinyl was a big seller before the invent of CD. No big surprise there.

Also, I'm not sure I can trust these charts. If they are true, then there are a lot of record companies, stores, and manufacturers that are stupidly taking a huge risk in investing and producing vinyl. There must be something driving this recent market trend. SOMEBODY must be buying them.

And it's not the old fogies who are mainly buying them out of nostalgia these days, but the younger "hipsters" that are driving the market. If they grew up listening to MP3's on their ipods and phones with their one little earbud, I can understand why they would be impressed with vinyl.

I wouldn't call it but a mild resurgence compared to vinyl's heyday. I was reliant in my logistics business on record company support of touring bands at one point and that dropped out well before the 90s. More a hipster thing with some audiophile/analogphile support IMHO. I still use my vinyl, still have my tt after 30 some years, but won't buy any more vinyl when I can get a better medium like bluray.

 

[j_garcia]

Sort of like asking why they don't make 8 Track anymore. Technology, for good or bad, has moved on. Just because some people still use an older format because they like it doesn't mean it is the best thing out there. I understand the vinyl thing; I still have my old vinyl too, but it isn't the way I normally prefer to listen.

For a company, they don't make them because a few hipsters buying them isn't a "market" where there will be a profit to be made.

 

[3db]

Most if not all new vinyl released comes with a digital download so when buys vinyl, they are actually buying two formats. Its old technology I know but it works and works extremely well. It will outlive the CD, thats for certain. When I realky want to listen to music, I always goes to vinyl as it keeps the convinience of skipping tracks away and I get a better appreciation of the artist as a whole. I find that people who put down vinyl as a medium are more in it for the convenience of the format than the music itself.

 

[lovinthehd]

Most if not all new vinyl released comes with a digital download so when buys vinyl, they are actually buying two formats. Its old technology I know but it works and works extremely well. It will outlive the CD, thats for certain. When I realky want to listen to music, I always goes to vinyl as it keeps the convinience of skipping tracks away and I get a better appreciation of the artist as a whole. I find that people who put down vinyl as a medium are more in it for the convenience of the format than the music itself.

So does it blow your mind when you find out an album you like the sequencing of songs on wasn't the artist's choice but that it fit better on the vinyl that way? I didn't know you often got a digital track with your vinyl....so which is mastered for what medium? Both for vinyl or both for digital? Convenience is one thing, lack of all the issues with vinyl playback is the main thing. I find one side of a record pretty short so no desire to skip tracks since my mix tape days, but when I cue up a digital album I'm more likely to listen to the whole thing, whereas with vinyl I often find myself simply turning it off rather than flipping the record/wanting to keep the vinyl ritual going.

 

[sterling shoote]

Most if not all new vinyl released comes with a digital download so when buys vinyl, they are actually buying two formats. Its old technology I know but it works and works extremely well. It will outlive the CD, thats for certain. When I realky want to listen to music, I always goes to vinyl as it keeps the convinience of skipping tracks away and I get a better appreciation of the artist as a whole. I find that people who put down vinyl as a medium are more in it for the convenience of the format than the music itself.

I don't think vinyl will outlive the CD. I see each going on and on and on.

 

[YammyFan72]

Sort of like asking why they don't make 8 Track anymore. Technology, for good or bad, has moved on. Just because some people still use an older format because they like it doesn't mean it is the best thing out there. I understand the vinyl thing; I still have my old vinyl too, but it isn't the way I normally prefer to listen.

For a company, they don't make them because a few hipsters buying them isn't a "market" where there will be a profit to be made.

No, it's not "sort of like asking why they don't make 8-Tracks anymore", not even close. That's a poor analogy. There is almost zero interest in 8-tracks and no one is producing any players or accessories for them. And I'm not at all suggesting that vinyl is "the best thing out there". I'm just pondering my favorite audio company doesn't have a TT in their line up when everyone else does, even though they are still dedicated to 2-channel audio more them most of them.

Every other major audio company has at least one TT in their line up and are coming out with new and better models all the time, Sony, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, Teac, NAD, etc. I've heard that Pioneer bought out Technics and came out with a clone of the Technics SL-1200mk2 a while back, but Yamaha doesn't have anything. I guess all these other companies haven't yet figured out that "technology has moved on". Quite the contrary, they are jumping on the vinyl bandwagon like never before since the late 1980's.

Yamaha still sells a separate tuner, and I imagine buyers of traditional AM/FM tuners are far fewer then those buyers of TT's. They also produce a myriad of 2-channel integrated and stereo receivers (with phono inputs) to the point of confusion, but no TT. It seems odd that Yamaha remains so dedicated to traditional 2-channel audio, yet they still have no TT in their line up.

 

[3db]

So does it blow your mind when you find out an album you like the sequencing of songs on wasn't the artist's choice but that it fit better on the vinyl that way? I didn't know you often got a digital track with your vinyl....so which is mastered for what medium? Both for vinyl or both for digital? Convenience is one thing, lack of all the issues with vinyl playback is the main thing. I find one side of a record pretty short so no desire to skip tracks since my mix tape days, but when I cue up a digital album I'm more likely to listen to the whole thing, whereas with vinyl I often find myself simply turning it off rather than flipping the record/wanting to keep the vinyl ritual going.

Your information of track order appears to be out of date. They are identical for both the digital download and the vinyl medium. Most new releases will span two platters if required. As an example, grab Tom Petty's MOJO and you will find both vinyl and digital are identical in terms of sound and track order.

 

[YammyFan72]

Your information of track order appears to be out of date. They are identical for both the digital download and the vinyl medium. Most new releases will span two platters if required. As an example, grab Tom Petty's MOJO and you will find both vinyl and digital are identical in terms of sound and track order.

If the new HD vinyl cutting method becomes a reality, they will soon be able to fit near CD length onto a single LP, eliminating the need for a 2nd disc and cutting costs in the process

 

[j_garcia]

No, it's not "sort of like asking why they don't make 8-Tracks anymore", not even close. That's a poor analogy. There is almost zero interest in 8-tracks and no one is producing any players or accessories for them. And I'm not at all suggesting that vinyl is "the best thing out there". I'm just pondering my favorite audio company doesn't have a TT in their line up when everyone else does, even though they are still dedicated to 2-channel audio more them most of them.

Every other major audio company has at least one TT in their line up and are coming out with new and better models all the time, Sony, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, Teac, NAD, etc. I've heard that Pioneer bought out Technics and came out with a clone of the Technics SL-1200mk2 a while back, but Yamaha doesn't have anything. I guess all these other companies haven't yet figured out that "technology has moved on". Quite the contrary, they are jumping on the vinyl bandwagon like never before since the late 1980's.

Yamaha still sells a separate tuner, and I imagine buyers of traditional AM/FM tuners are far fewer then those buyers of TT's. They also produce a myriad of 2-channel integrated and stereo receivers (with phono inputs) to the point of confusion, but no TT. It seems odd that Yamaha remains so dedicated to traditional 2-channel audio, yet they still have no TT in their line up.

Clearly you missed the point. Yes these companies sell them. That doesn't mean they're selling a LOT of them. It is a niche market. It isn't profitable. They offer them because people still have vinyl and that won't change. There are things that are only on vinyl that you can't get in any other format. While it won't go away anytime soon, it also will never be what it used to be. VERY few artists are releasing on vinyl (Steven Wilson releases every release of his on vinyl, and Burning Shed are having other significant artist's albums re-released.). It is a FUN format. There's something inherently different about spinning it up and dropping the tone arm onto that vinyl that makes you feel more involved. There's nostalgia in that. A nostalgia that most Hipsters don't even have, yet the latch onto it (like everything else they ruin).

If the new HD vinyl cutting method becomes a reality, they will soon be able to fit near CD length onto a single LP, eliminating the need for a 2nd disc and cutting costs in the process

 

[3db]

Clearly you missed the point. Yes these companies sell them. That doesn't mean they're selling a LOT of them. It is a niche market. It isn't profitable. They offer them because people still have vinyl and that won't change. There are things that are only on vinyl that you can't get in any other format. While it won't go away anytime soon, it also will never be what it used to be. VERY few artists are releasing on vinyl (Steven Wilson releases every release of his on vinyl, and Burning Shed are having other significant artist's albums re-released.). It is a FUN format. There's something inherently different about spinning it up and dropping the tone arm onto that vinyl that makes you feel more involved. There's nostalgia in that. A nostalgia that most Hipsters don't even have, yet the latch onto it (like everything else they ruin).

Hey J
Most of the indie scene is releasing both on vinyl and digital. Alot of the older groups such as Zep, Stones, Kinks, etc are releasing their anthology on new vinyl after having it remastered. The biggest selling new album last year or year before was Radiohead..and they have been around for a very long time. The number of artists releasing on vinyl is more than very few.

However, saying all that, I think too that its a niche market. How big this niche will become only time can tell. I also think that there enough turntable manufacturers out there to choose from. Technics jumped back into the frey when they rereleased/upgraded its much vaulted SL1200 and are asking a crazy price of 4K which its definitely not worth IHO. Yamaha manages its money better than most of the Japanese companies. My quess is that Yamaha is very aware of the growth in vinyl and are keeping their eyes open to see if and when it will enter the market.

I would also like to point out that every age group is experimenting with vinyl, not just hipsters. It spans multiple generations.

Have a good one.