Multi room audio set up

[Dieter]

I have purchased a multi channel amp, Rotel RMB 1506 thinking it would provide me with a multi zone solution. In an attempt to keep everything under one roof so I can control it with the Rotel remote app I spent a couple thousand on Rotel pre-amp, Rotel network tuner and Rotel power amp. The power amp has 6 channels with connection possibilities of either seperate inputs for each set of speakers or linking all 3 zones to a single input.

I have now discovered that I can only control the preamp and tuner inputs via the remote but not the zone outputs. Other than the volume which controls all the channels I am unable to switch any of the zones ON or OFF or adjust the volumes separately.
The zones can only be adjusted by manually adjusting each zone (on or off) on the actual amplilfier with a little screwdriver!

I don't think what I am looking for is that exclusive but I'm really struggling to set up a simple system that anyone can use. Isn't a centrally located/controlled set up with separate speakers across the house what everyone wants from a whole house set up?

 

[everettT]

I have purchased a multi channel amp, Rotel RMB 1506 thinking it would provide me with a multi zone solution. In an attempt to keep everything under one roof so I can control it with the Rotel remote app I spent a couple thousand on Rotel pre-amp, Rotel network tuner and Rotel power amp. The power amp has 6 channels with connection possibilities of either seperate inputs for each set of speakers or linking all 3 zones to a single input.

I have now discovered that I can only control the preamp and tuner inputs via the remote but not the zone outputs. Other than the volume which controls all the channels I am unable to switch any of the zones ON or OFF or adjust the volumes separately.
The zones can only be adjusted by manually adjusting each zone (on or off) on the actual amplilfier with a little screwdriver!

I don't think what I am looking for is that exclusive but I'm really struggling to set up a simple system that anyone can use. Isn't a centrally located/controlled set up with separate speakers across the house what everyone wants from a whole house set up?

Without knowing your preamp model and network tuner its hard to look up info. If Im understanding you you just want more control as the setup your using works, correct?

 

[Dieter]

Hi everett. Correct, control is what I am looking for. It would seem quite a simple feature to include in the power amp and I am very surprised and a little annoyed that they have chosen to omit this.
The preamp is a RC 1570 and the tuner is the RT 1570

 

[everettT]

Since most power amps do not have volume controls (and often no gain controls), you needed to purchase multizone preamp that would give you all the features your looking for and then a good universal remote . There are a couple of speaker selectors that have remote control and provide up to two inputs, with the volume still controlled by the preamp, this is one. Your limitation is with the preamp. For under 1K you can purchase a six zone unit and amplifier

 

[Dieter]

thanks for that. I have seen the speaker selectors but I was hoping to have one source of control that would work over the home network so it can be controlled from anywhere in the house. I am more and more convinced that I should probably have gone for a Sonos system.

 

[lovinthehd]

My Denon receiver has four zones, all of which are controllable by the remote or my phone app for the receiver.....

 

[everettT]

thanks for that. I have seen the speaker selectors but I was hoping to have one source of control that would work over the home network so it can be controlled from anywhere in the house. I am more and more convinced that I should probably have gone for a Sonos system.

That would have been one route, there are several and for the money you spent you could/can have better than sonus. Sonus takes some the quest work out of it, and can be employed as a nice convenient setup.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think if you want simple you need to buy from manufacturers who specialize in multi room audio distribution, like Sonos and Russound.

So now you have the equipment you have a problem. I do not know of a six channel preamp that can control three stereo pairs. There may be one, but I don't know of it.

I don't know what quality you are after, but if this is a background/ceiling system I would add a remote controlled impedance matching speaker selector, and impedance matching volume controls in each room.

If it is high quality stereo you want in each room, then the way to go is to put discrete systems in each room and NO central control.

I personally hate background ceiling systems. I had no luck going the central route with remote speakers, and so for quality which I demand, it requires discrete systems in each space.

I know you realize this now, but you did not do your home work and investigation before purchase.

 

[Latent]

If it is high quality stereo you want in each room, then the way to go is to put discrete systems in each room and NO central control.

Some good points and having real speakers in the room may sound better than in ceiling. One of the interesting things that technology is changing. In the old days you needed a central control system with a multi-room pre-amp linked to a rack of poweramps feeding out to all the rooms. You can still do it this way of course and with the right equipment it will work fine.

But now there are a few more options that use wired ethernet and WIFI to join separate systems together into one controllable system. Most of these systems are very expensive for what they are and very propitiatory restricting what you can do with them. There are solutions like Sonos, Denon Heos, Yamaha MusicCast and several others where you just add separate units per room and they work together. With this setup you can have the discrete system per room that TLS Guy would prefer but still have the option to control them centrally.

Play-Fi is another interesting one as it is multi-vendor but it has so few good options right now and they are not on the budget friendly side or that well tailored to audioholics yet.

Another option that I think is quite interesting is ChromeCast Audio as it has the potential to change what is possible on a budget. But while it solves some of the issues it still has some issues like the lack of ability to control the power on/off of the connected amplifier or switching source inputs on devices. But for your setup it makes an interesting alternative of connecting a few cheap chromecast audio's as input directly into your power amps. The DAC built in is not perfect though but if it is just feeding background in ceiling audio it would probably be fine. You can get external higher quality optical input DAC's to upgrade them if quality is a real issue. With this setup selecting your source and controlling which room has audio and volume is all done on a phone/tablet. The only other thing you really need is a way to remotely power on and off the amplifiers when needed. universal IR remotes may solve this if devices have IR inputs or you can get home automation controllable power outlets maybe.

 

[Dieter]

The ChromeCAst audio is certainly a good option, I do already have the option of streaming through Bluetooth but this obviously has its spacial limitations and needs pairing etc.
The chromecast also makes it possible to have separate systems in each room and cast to one or all of them!

I have been very disappointing with the Rotel app and controls. Firstly I can't power the system up without the IR remote or pushing the power button and although I have a dedicated laptop with all my media on connected to the system to network from, accessing the data on the app is very hit and miss.

Regarding the ceiling speakers quality. I have gone for built in B&W speakers throughout the house and what I have noticed is that the price of the speaker has very little to do with the sound quality.
CCM 382 - Sound full and rich and didn't need any boxing in etc. and at £250 are an absolute bargain.
CCM 362 - Terrible, and at £300 I feel like I've been ripped off with fake B&W's. My TV speakers sound better!
CWM 663 - Not bad when you turn them up but lifeless when just playing at normal levels. comparable to little bookshelf speakers and at £500 they are overpriced.

 

[herbu]

Isn't a centrally located/controlled set up with separate speakers across the house what everyone wants from a whole house set up?

Hmmm... I don't think so. To my thinking, you want to actually be in the target room when you control its audio. And if I'm doing something w/ the audio in one room, I don't want to wait or interfere with somebody doing something in another room. So I believe a separate system in each room has more flexibility and advantages than disadvantages. But that's just me.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hmmm... I don't think so. To my thinking, you want to actually be in the target room when you control its audio. And if I'm doing something w/ the audio in one room, I don't want to wait or interfere with somebody doing something in another room. So I believe a separate system in each room has more flexibility and advantages than disadvantages. But that's just me.

These systems are what the inexperienced think they want. They are in fact a very irritating mess more often than not.

 

[Latent]

The ChromeCAst audio is certainly a good option, I do already have the option of streaming through Bluetooth but this obviously has its spacial limitations and needs pairing etc.
The chromecast also makes it possible to have separate systems in each room and cast to one or all of them!

I have been very disappointing with the Rotel app and controls. Firstly I can't power the system up without the IR remote or pushing the power button and although I have a dedicated laptop with all my media on connected to the system to network from, accessing the data on the app is very hit and miss.

Looking at the manual for that 6 channel amp there is a switch on the back that can be set to the middle 'Signal Sense' position. With this set and three chromecast audio dongles connected via 3.5mm->RCA cables (or though external optical->RCA DAC's if required) will auto power on the amp when it senses an audio signal from the chromecasts. It turns off after a few minutes if there is no signal. Simple and very cheap solution

 

[Dieter]

Thank you Latent. I have tried the signal sense, which should power the units on once an input signal is detected, but haven't had any luck getting it to work. I will keep tinkering as the problem is most likely user error! There is always the wifi plug/socket option to power it on and off if I can't get the gizmos to work.

 

[Dieter]

Since most power amps do not have volume controls (and often no gain controls), you needed to purchase multizone preamp that would give you all the features your looking for and then a good universal remote . There are a couple of speaker selectors that have remote control and provide up to two inputs, with the volume still controlled by the preamp, this is one. Your limitation is with the preamp. For under 1K you can purchase a six zone unit and amplifier

Regarding the speaker selectors.
As I already have a multi channel amp the speaker outputs are already split into my 3 zones, the problem with this is all the speaker selectors seem to take one input and split it into two//three/etc.
I don't need to control the volumes of the different zones independently I just want to be able to switch some off. Is there a way I can do this with a regular speaker selector or will I need to take one channel from the amp and split it with the "selector". If I put all three channels into one input, how would that affect the resistance etc.?

 

[Latent]

Is there a way I can do this with a regular speaker selector or will I need to take one channel from the amp and split it with the "selector". If I put all three channels into one input, how would that affect the resistance etc.?

Can you explan your question in another way as it is very hard to work out what you are asking. Put all three what channels into what input? There are so many inputs, channels and conections that you have to be very specific.

You can connect three amplifier pre-in inputs to one source or preamp device with little problem as inputs are designed to draw very little current and preamps are fine supplying more than one amp. The amp has switches to join the zones like this anyway.

Could you maybe look at putting the speaker selector switch box in between the source/preamp and the amp pre-inputs. May get some thumping noise when switching zones on/off though. Normally not recommended to connect or disconnect pre-inputs while amp is running because it can damage something and this is what you would be doing with each zone toggle.

Speaker selectors normally connect to a pa amp built to power multiple speakers in parrallel and therfore power a very low impedance. Only need one stereo amp then but this doesn't help for your amp.

 

[everettT]

Regarding the speaker selectors.
As I already have a multi channel amp the speaker outputs are already split into my 3 zones, the problem with this is all the speaker selectors seem to take one input and split it into two//three/etc.
I don't need to control the volumes of the different zones independently I just want to be able to switch some off. Is there a way I can do this with a regular speaker selector or will I need to take one channel from the amp and split it with the "selector". If I put all three channels into one input, how would that affect the resistance etc.?

You would have to use a stereo pair from the multi channel amp. My original thought is to still buy the right gear for the application. This amp will allow some better results, and for $500 usd a cheap one.

 

[Latent]

You would have to use a stereo pair from the multi channel amp. My original thought is to still buy the right gear for the application. This amp will allow some better results, and for $500 usd a cheap one.

Another cool feature of this amp/contoller unit is that it has preouts and 12v trigger output so you can use your existing amp if it has more power.

 

[DJWPAR3]

Yamaha is making a wireless preamp available(August) that may solve many 2 zone issues.
here's the link: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/?selected=618403_618404_&mode=compare
I'm interested because I believe this would allow me to setup a 5.1.4 Atmos in my main room yet still have zone 2 control. My zone 2 now hijacks 2 channels from my Yamaha 2050.
Let me know what you think. is this a good possibility?

 

[highfigh]

I have purchased a multi channel amp, Rotel RMB 1506 thinking it would provide me with a multi zone solution. In an attempt to keep everything under one roof so I can control it with the Rotel remote app I spent a couple thousand on Rotel pre-amp, Rotel network tuner and Rotel power amp. The power amp has 6 channels with connection possibilities of either seperate inputs for each set of speakers or linking all 3 zones to a single input.

I have now discovered that I can only control the preamp and tuner inputs via the remote but not the zone outputs. Other than the volume which controls all the channels I am unable to switch any of the zones ON or OFF or adjust the volumes separately.
The zones can only be adjusted by manually adjusting each zone (on or off) on the actual amplilfier with a little screwdriver!

I don't think what I am looking for is that exclusive but I'm really struggling to set up a simple system that anyone can use. Isn't a centrally located/controlled set up with separate speakers across the house what everyone wants from a whole house set up?

More model numbers would help.

There's really not a single solution for all people because the possibilities are almost endless.

How many areas will you want to control and how many speakers will be in each zone? Group speakers in each zone before looking at any equipment. Then, determine how many music sources or channels will be needed for each before choosing a controller. Once you know these criteria, you can pick a preamp/controller but this also comes with the question of "How will I control each zone?".

Russound, Niles, Sonance, Crestron and other companies sell multi-zone controllers of varying quality but if the cabling isn't in place, some of them won't be easy to operate.