YPAO. And speaker leveling

[JOHN FICKEL]

No. I haven't seen it. It only states that if you engage the manual pink noise, that it will then override any setting set by YPAO

 

[lovinthehd]

No. I haven't seen it. It only states that if you engage the manual pink noise, that it will then override any setting set by YPAO

I'd think likewise that any running of YPAO would do the same, i.e. override any previous setting....it really doesn't make sense that any current settings would be kept....how would they be useful in supposedly a new situation?

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I'd think likewise that any running of YPAO would do the same, i.e. override any previous setting....it really doesn't make sense that any current settings would be kept....how would they be useful in supposedly a new situation?

You have a valid point. Sorry for the dumb question. I just wanted to make completely sure thank you

 

[lovinthehd]

You have a valid point. Sorry for the dumb question. I just wanted to make completely sure thank you

Not a dumb question. Manuals are only so clear on signal flow....

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Not a dumb question. Manuals are only so clear on signal flow....

Thanks again bud.

 

[PENG]

Thanks again bud.

I am sure he is right, that each new run will ignore previous settings.

 

[PENG]

In my previous discussions I don't recall anyone confirming that Audyssey worked as you posit, but rather confirmed that they are separate beasts. In the quote he is talking about subwoofer level, not speaker (it vs them). I'll find out at least with XT32 on my Denon as that is the system they're going in for now. Can try XT on my Onkyo later....maybe, as you say no real need to rerun it on that system unless I change up speakers there as well....

I can see that we are still not communicating well on this topic. I have no idea why, as I agreed with you lots of time, but for whatever reasons on this one I don't really know what we are agreeing or disagreeing. I don't seem to understand what you are saying and vice versa I assume, because your rebuttals don't really seem to apply to points I've made so far..

 

[lovinthehd]

I can see that we are still not communicating well on this topic. I have no idea why, as I agreed with you lots of time, but for whatever reasons on this one I don't really know what we are agreeing or disagreeing. I don't seem to understand what you are saying and vice versa I assume, because your rebuttals don't really seem to apply to points I've made so far..

I thought we were on the same page as understanding our positions now but I guess not. The speaker levels seem to be independent of the sub levels in Audyssey/avr implementations I've got, as well as what I read in Chris K's comments, as well as confirmation in other forum discussions. I understand what you're saying, I just don't think it applies to Audyssey but could be avr manufacturer specific. Will do some deliberate tweaking to see if I can get speaker/sub levels to be interdependent (at least that is how I read your comments). Maybe since this is Audyssey specific (and maybe avr) we should take this private and leave this thread to YPAO issues....

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I thought we were on the same page as understanding our positions now but I guess not. The speaker levels seem to be independent of the sub levels in Audyssey/avr implementations I've got, as well as what I read in Chris K's comments, as well as confirmation in other forum discussions. I understand what you're saying, I just don't think it applies to Audyssey but could be avr manufacturer specific. Will do some deliberate tweaking to see if I can get speaker/sub levels to be interdependent (at least that is how I read your comments). Maybe since this is Audyssey specific (and maybe avr) we should take this private and leave this thread to YPAO issues....

It's fine.lol. Maybe I'll learn something new.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's fine.lol. Maybe I'll learn something new.

LOL just sent him a pm anyways. Might be doing the new Audyssey runs tomorrow night....eta on new speakers changed from Monday!

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

LOL just sent him a pm anyways. Might be doing the new Audyssey runs tomorrow night....eta on new speakers changed from Monday!

Cool. Let me know how you make out. I did contact Mcintosh and talked to two senior engineers , they both said stay on the 8ohm taps, They even looked at the graph, Klipsch says the same. So tonight when the wife goes to bed I'll be Switching back to 8 ohm taps. Lol

 

[PENG]

I thought we were on the same page as understanding our positions now but I guess not. The speaker levels seem to be independent of the sub levels in Audyssey/avr implementations I've got, as well as what I read in Chris K's comments, as well as confirmation in other forum discussions. I understand what you're saying, I just don't think it applies to Audyssey but could be avr manufacturer specific. Will do some deliberate tweaking to see if I can get speaker/sub levels to be interdependent (at least that is how I read your comments). Maybe since this is Audyssey specific (and maybe avr) we should take this private and leave this thread to YPAO issues....

Let me try one more time, I think it could be that we both got caught in semantics!

Before you spent time on any tweaking to prove me right or wrong, please re-read my post#79 as I don't really want you to waste your time on something I said. Let's imagine you have a sub that has a very high gain amp, and you turn it's volume way up because you like super hot bass. Now you run Audyssey, don't you think Audyssey will have to raise the levels of the other speakers to match the level of the sub? For my AV8801, the lowest level Audyssey can set my sub to is -12 dB, can't go lower than that. Another point, you have been referring to Audyssey, the OP has YPAO, that may have even less range for the sub level and if so, it will logically be more "dependent" on the sub's volume knob position, but that should be a question for Yamaha. However, the OP did say (twice), that if you turn the sub off, YPAO would then set the speaker levels lower, to what he expected to see so that sort of reinforce of what I believe may be happening, in his set up.

Again, I agree it is time to take it private, if needed..

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Let me try one more time, I think it could be that we both got caught in semantics!

Before you spent time on any tweaking to prove me right or wrong, please re-read my post#79 as I don't really want you to waste your time on something I said. Think about this, if you have a sub that is much more sensitive than your speakers, and you turn it's volume way up because you like super hot bass. Now you run Audyssey, don't you think Audyssey will have to raise the levels of the other speakers to match the level of the sub? For my AV8801, the lowest level Audyssey can set my sub to is -12 dB, can't go lower than that. Another point, you have been referring to Audyssey, the OP has YPAO, that may have even less range for the sub level and if so, it will logically be more "dependent" on the sub's volume knob position, but that should be a question for Yamaha. However, the OP did say (twice), that if you turn the sub off, YPAO would then set the speaker levels lower, to what he expected to see so that sort of reinforce of what I believe may be happening, in his set up.

Again, I agree it is time to take it private, if needed..

Your right PENG, my sub range in the AVR is +10 through - 10. And you are correct , when subs are engaged in the process, YPAO sets all my efficient speakers very HOT. So tomorrow I will turn subs down to 8 am on the back of both subs and re-run YPAO. And before running the test again I should not have to change the AVR levels Of the subs prior to running YPAO

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

One thing for sure, subwoofer volume on the back of our subs, if not set properly for the room, could have adverse results with YPAO and Audyssey

 

[lovinthehd]

Let me try one more time, I think it could be that we both got caught in semantics!

Before you spent time on any tweaking to prove me right or wrong, please re-read my post#79 as I don't really want you to waste your time on something I said. Let's imagine you have a sub that has a very high gain amp, and you turn it's volume way up because you like super hot bass. Now you run Audyssey, don't you think Audyssey will have to raise the levels of the other speakers to match the level of the sub? For my AV8801, the lowest level Audyssey can set my sub to is -12 dB, can't go lower than that. Another point, you have been referring to Audyssey, the OP has YPAO, that may have even less range for the sub level and if so, it will logically be more "dependent" on the sub's volume knob position, but that should be a question for Yamaha. However, the OP did say (twice), that if you turn the sub off, YPAO would then set the speaker levels lower, to what he expected to see so that sort of reinforce of what I believe may be happening, in his set up.

Again, I agree it is time to take it private, if needed..

I'll do the experiments with Audyssey while I'm at it one way or the other just to prove it to myself if anything.

I think we're on the same page. I'm pretty sure I've seen enough comments from those running Audyssey with poor gain settings on their sub, and others commenting, that leads me to think they're independent.

Only from here did I surmise that YPAO lumps the speaker/sub levels together, which is somewhat logical since there's no separate adjustment of sub level possible (prior to the running of the routine) as with Audyssey. That's what struck me as a significant difference.

I'm curious how YPAO handles this, seems somewhat so from what John's experience is unless I missed something, or his situation with outboard amp without gain adjustment, etc... As I mentioned earlier, I saw something in another thread (don't remember where) recently that seemed to back the balancing of the speakers/subs together thing with YPAO. I haven't had a Yamaha unit so no experience there in any case other than what I've gathered from comments on the forums (and can't recall anyone indicating before that they may be tied together but I don't follow Yamaha/YPAO much).

Since John doesn't mind....and I'll have some numbers tomorrow nite, we'll see!

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

I'll do the experiments with Audyssey while I'm at it one way or the other just to prove it to myself if anything.

I think we're on the same page. I'm pretty sure I've seen enough comments from those running Audyssey with poor gain settings on their sub, and others commenting, that leads me to think they're independent.

Only from here did I surmise that YPAO lumps the speaker/sub levels together, which is somewhat logical since there's no separate adjustment of sub level possible (prior to the running of the routine) as with Audyssey. That's what struck me as a significant difference.

I'm curious how YPAO handles this, seems somewhat so from what John's experience is unless I missed something, or his situation with outboard amp without gain adjustment, etc... As I mentioned earlier, I saw something in another thread (don't remember where) recently that seemed to back the balancing of the speakers/subs together thing with YPAO. I haven't had a Yamaha unit so no experience there in any case other than what I've gathered from comments on the forums (and can't recall anyone indicating before that they may be tied together but I don't follow Yamaha/YPAO much).

Since John doesn't mind....and I'll have some numbers tomorrow nite, we'll see!

Awesome!! Sounds good.

 

[herbu]

Maybe I'll learn something new.

Mr. John,
First let me say you are quite a conversationalist. 117 entries on this thread. Some questions, some rebuttals, and LOTS of extremely detailed technical information. People have spent hours researching and responding. Kudos to the members here, and your ability to keep the dialog alive.

As a thread this long is want to do, we have wandered a bit. You started the thread with a statement... "I am starting to believe YPAO for speaker leveling is completely inaccurate.".

Now my question for you is: What have you learned about that so far?

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

Mr. John,
First let me say you are quite a conversationalist. 117 entries on this thread. Some questions, some rebuttals, and LOTS of extremely detailed technical information. People have spent hours researching and responding. Kudos to the members here, and your ability to keep the dialog alive.

As a thread this long is want to do, we have wandered a bit. You started the thread with a statement... "I am starting to believe YPAO for speaker leveling is completely inaccurate.".

Now my question for you is: What have you learned about that so far?

I have actually learned a lot, and I am absolutely grateful for all of those who have tried to help me. But as far as explaining everything that I have learned it's just far too much to put into words.

 

[herbu]

I have learned it's just far too much to put into words.

This is what I have learned:
YPAO is not a magic pill that, when run, configures any system perfectly for any room. It is a tool that when understood, is useful to help configure any system in any room.

 

[PENG]

This is what I have learned:
YPAO is not a magic pill that, when run, configures any system perfectly for any room. It is a tool that when understood, is useful to help configure any system in any room.

My only experience with YPAO was with an old AVR, RX-V659 and do not recall any weird issue with YPAO setting up a KEF satellite/sub system. I would think that Yamaha, being one of the leading and largest AV equipment manufacturer, has plenty of resource to do things right.

I prefer Audyssey XT32, but I wouldn't hesitate to try YPAO, or Anthem's ARC room EQ systems, money permitting. I think people who have weird issues, or bad results with such REQ systems, probably either because they did not follow instructions (fail to read the fine prints or misunderstood the instruction) fully, have weird/odd placements/shape of their rooms), speakers and/or subs with extreme sensitivities, or a combination of these things.