Denon and Yamaha

[flippo]

I am looking to upgrade my Onkyo Tx sr602 to either a Denon AVR3000 or Yamaha equivalent. Any Thoughts on Deneon V. Yamaha?

Thanks,

Flippo

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'd pick Denon over Deneon anyday
I'd personally recommend to keep 602 unless you it died or you have big compatibility issue
Invest in speakers/subs first.

 

[flippo]

My Sub and speakers r fine. Just would like to have the DEQ of either Aud. or Ypao

 

[lovinthehd]

You might note that Audyssey has a specific feature called Dynamic EQ (a compensation for apparent loudness at lower than reference volume level), often abbreviated DEQ. Don't believe Yamaha's YPAO has a similar feature. Audyssey generally does a better job in eq'g subs. I like my Denon and Onkyo with Audyssey but haven't tried a Yamaha.

I'm with others, though, I'd upgrade speakers before the avr. Better speakers need less eq is one way to look at it....but sometimes catching up with newer avr connectivity/features is worthy, too.

 

[flippo]

Mirage is not a bad speaker brand and I actually enjoy them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Mirage is not a bad speaker brand and I actually enjoy them.

I don't think anyone is saying that they're bad speakers, just that many of us would prefer better speakers than different electronics (for me at least larger and more capable front speakers). If you don't see any reason to upgrade them that's entirely understandable.

 

[3db]

You might note that Audyssey has a specific feature called Dynamic EQ (a compensation for apparent loudness at lower than reference volume level), often abbreviated DEQ. Don't believe Yamaha's YPAO has a similar feature. Audyssey generally does a better job in eq'g subs. I like my Denon and Onkyo with Audyssey but haven't tried a Yamaha.

I'm with others, though, I'd upgrade speakers before the avr. Better speakers need less eq is one way to look at it....but sometimes catching up with newer avr connectivity/features is worthy, too.

Yamaha has YPAO volume which is Yamaha's version of Dynamic EQ. I believe that Denon with Audyssey no longer holds an advantage over Yamaha and YPAO. IHO, you would not go wrong with either choice.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yamaha has YPAO volume which is Yamaha's version of Dynamic EQ. I believe that Denon with Audyssey no longer holds an advantage over Yamaha and YPAO. IHO, you would not go wrong with either choice.

Good to know. How is YPAO doing with sub eq these days?

 

[flippo]

Not being defensive. Probably would want larger speakers if room was bigger but My listening room is not very big. I also love the wide soundstage the Mirages project.

 

[3db]

Not being defensive. Probably would want larger speakers if room was bigger but My listening room is not very big. I also love the wide soundstage the Mirages project.

They're your ears and if you are happy, that's all that counts.

 

[3db]

Good to know. How is YPAO doing with sub eq these days?

They don't have it yet. However, based on on my old RX-V1800's YPAO, I'm not sure its really needed. Even with my rudimentyr YAPO, I managed to dial teh sub in nice in tight and inntegrated perfectly with the rest of my system. SubEQ is far from a deal breaker.

 

[KenM10759]

They're your ears and if you are happy, that's all that counts.

Agreed. And this statement (which I also use often enough) is the audio equivalent of a southern "Bless his heart."

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

IMO the salient difference is Audyssey DEQ vs Yamaha's. In bypass mode, they all sound equally good.

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[asere]

Try the Pioneer SC 95. It has mcacc pro with sub eq.

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[M Code]

Forget about Denon they are shifting AVR production to Vietnam..
Their reliability has been dropping steadily since they started outsourcing 3 years ago... Also their performance with wifi and LAN apps is very marginal...

 

[asere]

Forget about Denon they are shifting AVR production to Vietnam..
Their reliability has been dropping steadily since they started outsourcing 3 years ago... Also their performance with wifi and LAN apps is very marginal...

I know but isn't that the case these days with manufacturers? You look and it says made in China, Malaysia.

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[KenM10759]

Is manufacturing in China worse than Vietnam or the other way around for some reason? Aren't Denon-Marantz monitoring quality the same regardless of the point of origin? I haven't seen any major issues with quality. I know of two models that had the wrong capacitor used in lighting the display and that would blow the fuse. They have a TSB out on that and do fix them. Other than that limited thing, they seem quite reliable.

 

[M Code]

4 Years ago, D&M Holdings parent company for Marantz and Denon was flushed of its liquid assets by Bain Capitol (Mitt Romney), next they terminated 150 employees @ Denon/Marantz USA while closing their own factories and pursuing outsourcing. Problem with outsourcing is now the design, production and quality control processes are farmed out. Last year they received some interim, marginal financing as they shifted their emphasis from lower-profit home theater products to the wireless HEOS categories for improved profit margin.

Also during this period...
Managment decided to go for mass market share, and sold their AVR products everywhere on the internet..
End-result was they sold a high quantity of entry-level AVRs while losing the loyal support of their more profitable higher-end AVRs sold by the CEDIA installers.

Just my $0.02...

 

[KenM10759]

Good story and likely a lot of truth, especially the Bain Capital part. I do doubt that there was ever a large share of earnings from the CI series as compared to the consumer products, despite higher profit margins. The margins on those may not have been quite as much as one might think because there had to be significant "meat on the bone" for the installers.

I don't know where one might find info on outsourcing the design and engineering aspect, though it's easy to outsource manufacturing and quality control. This is done successfully by myriad consumer electronics companies, from Apple to Zappos.

 

[M Code]

Good story and likely a lot of truth, especially the Bain Capital part. I do doubt that there was ever a large share of earnings from the CI series as compared to the consumer products, despite higher profit margins. The margins on those may not have been quite as much as one might think because there had to be significant "meat on the bone" for the installers.

I don't know where one might find info on outsourcing the design and engineering aspect, though it's easy to outsource manufacturing and quality control. This is done successfully by myriad consumer electronics companies, from Apple to Zappos.

Since we do product development/sourcing for some the primary AVR brands, we know this category quite well.. We have visited the Orient >100 times, plus traveling to the Denon subcontractor factory multiple times. Regarding the Denon AVRs and respective profit margin, when an AVR is priced below $599 (SRP) the brand makes no profit...
5 years ago the Denon 3300, 4800 and 5800 series were all the top selling AVRs in their respective price points.

Just my $0.02...