This looks like a lot of speaker for the money.

[markw]

Dunno how they sound, but effens I was in the market for a pair of mains for a budget/starter system, either stereo or HT, I'd certainly seriously consider these.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DKPJUDU/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Consider this - till very recently (as in few days ago) and since last nov - these sold at only $140/pr
https://thetracktor.com/detail/B00DKPJUDU/us/
Newegg still has them for similar price, but after rebate which is typically somewhat a PITA
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16886110006

 

[markw]

I gotta say, looking at Amazon, one could put together a decent looking 5.0 system from the Loft series for < $250.

for that price, it would really have to suck to not be a best buy.

 

[Steve81]

for that price, it would really have to suck to not be a best buy.

I can't say I'd be overly optimistic. With a sale price of $140-$180/pair, you're not left with much of a working budget to squeeze in a pair of tweeters, six 4" midrange drivers, four 6.5" woofers, a pair of respectable XOs to make everything work properly, and decent cabinetry. Admittedly, I haven't listened to them and it's possible JBL may have pulled off a minor miracle. Still, if I were on a tight budget, I'd be looking at something like the new AA monitors (195/pr) and an inexpensive Dayton sub.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I can't say I'd be overly optimistic. With a sale price of $140-$180/pair, you're not left with much of a working budget to squeeze in a pair of tweeters, six 4" midrange drivers, four 6.5" woofers, a pair of respectable XOs to make everything work properly, and decent cabinetry. Admittedly, I haven't listened to them and it's possible JBL may have pulled off a minor miracle. Still, if I were on a tight budget, I'd be looking at something like the new AA monitors (195/pr) and an inexpensive Dayton sub.

Just to be devil's advocate for a sec - It's possible that at original price of $250/pr they were thin margin and price of $140 is possibly a stock liquidation at negative margins...
But yeah - AA's are awesome (didn't get the pleasure to listen to them just yet - but based on countless reviews of very reliable forum veterans and few friends which bouch them on my suggestion)
One comment for sub - Dayton sub have met it's match :
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/jbl-es250p-12-400-rms-700w-peak-ported-subwoofer-180.98466/
Price went up to $250, but I think they will lower it back again soon...

 

[Steve81]

Just to be devil's advocate for a sec - It's possible that at original price of $250/pr they were thin margin and price of $140 is possibly a stock liquidation at negative margins...

It's possible, but even if you figure the wholesale price is around $200/pr, that's still not much to work with for that driver count and an XO of the requisite complexity to make them all work together properly. Even getting a four pack of relatively inexpensive Dayton woofers like these would kill any hope of meeting that budget (even assuming manufacturing cost is a bit less). The stuff has to be seriously cheap, and when it's that cheap, it's pretty much guaranteed to have serious compromises as well.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

It's possible, but even if you figure the wholesale price is around $200/pr, that's still not much to work with for that driver count and an XO of the requisite complexity to make them all work together properly. Even getting a four pack of relatively inexpensive Dayton woofers like these would kill any hope of meeting that budget (even assuming manufacturing cost is a bit less). The stuff has to be seriously cheap, and when it's that cheap, it's pretty much guaranteed to have serious compromises as well.

Well, except even cheap Dayton woofer have margins build into their price, but JBL doesn't buy woofers - they tool and build their own and make hundreds of thousands each. I guess they have some sort of binning and lower bins woofers may go into budget products like this one...

My last argument in this is that Pioneer SP-FS51-LR were sold as low as $120/pr and didn't suck
https://thetracktor.com//detail/B004H1M4NO/us/

 

[Steve81]

Well, except even cheap Dayton woofer have margins build into their price, but JBL doesn't buy woofers - they tool and build their own and make hundreds of thousands each.

Indeed, but the wholesale price would still have to include some markup for JBL to cover not just manufacturing costs, but OH, shipping to retailers, and profit as well. Could they produce a similar woofer to those Daytons for less than $20? Surely. Could they sell them profitably for significantly less? Probably not. And that's just four woofers. There's still six midrange drivers, two tweeters, the crossovers, and the cabinet. Something's gotta give.

My last argument in this is that Pioneer SP-FS51-LR were sold as low as $120/pr and didn't suck

I'd say that fits my argument well. The Pio's have 4 fewer drivers per pair, a smaller cabinet, weigh less (cheaper shipping), and still only cost $20 less per pair than the $140 you mentioned for these JBLs were available for. And I'd still take the AA monitors over either.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can't be any worse than Bose, can they ?

 

[afterlife2]

I wonder what Dennis can do with these? AAA+

 

[Steve81]

Can't be any worse than Bose, can they ?

Thinking about it more, it gets worse

Running with the hypothetical $200/pr wholesale cost (which means selling for $140 loses a retailer $60), first subtract the cost of shipping to the retailer and packing materials (two decent boxes & foam to survive shipping, and a manual). Let's be optimistic and call that $30. Now lets talk cabinetry. The cabs used for the AA monitors run ~$60 from PE. Again, being optimistic, let's say JBL can build a pair of those tower cabs for about the same. Now you gotta figure in misc crap: internal wiring, binding posts, feet, and 4 ports. Let's call that another $10. Now you've got $100 for 12 drivers and the XOs. That's not a lot of cash divvied up a lot of ways, especially if you figure JBL might like to make a few bucks in producing these things while doing QC, covering warranty claims, etc....

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I wonder what Dennis can do with these? AAA+

The same thing I did with the Fluance--price it out of the market.

 

[KEW]

The same thing I did with the Fluance--price it out of the market.

It'd be a lot less if you don't have to measure and custom design for each individual driver!
JBL may have a more consistent manufacturing process.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

It'd be a lot less if you don't have to measure and custom design for each individual driver!
JBL may have a more consistent manufacturing process.

I can't HEEEAAAARRRRRRR you.

 

[markw]

Hey, if you add a $200 sub, betcha 95% of the muggles would be in audio heaven.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thinking about it more, it gets worse

Running with the hypothetical $200/pr wholesale cost (which means selling for $140 loses a retailer $60), first subtract the cost of shipping to the retailer and packing materials (two decent boxes & foam to survive shipping, and a manual). Let's be optimistic and call that $30. Now lets talk cabinetry. The cabs used for the AA monitors run ~$60 from PE. Again, being optimistic, let's say JBL can build a pair of those tower cabs for about the same. Now you gotta figure in misc crap: internal wiring, binding posts, feet, and 4 ports. Let's call that another $10. Now you've got $100 for 12 drivers and the XOs. That's not a lot of cash divvied up a lot of ways, especially if you figure JBL might like to make a few bucks in producing these things while doing QC, covering warranty claims, etc....

So we're thinking White-Van stuff ?

 

[Steve81]

So we're thinking White-Van stuff ?

Nah. Just looks like run of the mill cheap stuff that's made to at least emulate the appearance of a higher end speaker. Who knows, it may even sound passable. However, when you're talking about speakers at the sub-$200 level, IMHO quality tends to be preferable to quantity. The muggles may of course disagree.

 

[zieglj01]

JBL Loft 50

http://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/zespoly-glosnikowe/437-loft-50

 

[shadyJ]

I have to ask how those measurements are made. I can not even make out the values on the vertical scale. There is no information about how they were made. I don't think those measurements are worth a whole lot.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have to ask how those measurements are made. I can not even make out the values on the vertical scale. There is no information about how they were made. I don't think those measurements are worth a whole lot.

On my screen I can see the response is +/- 10db.

Of more importance on the impedance plot you can see the panel resonances are monstrous and they ring like barrels!