Please give me a concrete advice

[lianid]

Hello everyone

I've been reading this forum for several days and have got a very positive impression of it. I am interested in a good quaility sound. My system is loudspeakers Epos M16, amplifier Creek Evo and player Denon DVD 1740. I also listen to the music (any kind of it) from my computer via Nuforce icon udac-2. Listening to the same material (cd on player and the rip of it from the computer) I found they sound about equal though I like the sound from the player a bit more, it seems to me more.... deep or.. I don't know what term I should use here.
I am retired and I live in Ukraine so a big upgrade is out of question. To be honest I like the sound I have quite well but I would like to improve it a bit if possible.

On the second hand market here there are Denon DVD 2910 (100 usd) and dac Cyrus av 5 (190 usd) and Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 (160 usd).

If I put 2910 instead of my 1740 will I get a much better sound from cd ? ( I don't care about dvd)
Or if I buy Cyrus or Cambridge Dacmagic and connect them to both computer (instead my cheap Nuforce) and my dvd player via coaxial, would it be a better alternative?

Thanks in advance and I hope for a help.

 

[lianid]

or instead of Denon DVD 2910 I could buy Yamaha DVD s2700 or Sony DVP NS900V QS for the same price (100 usd) if they are better in the sound departament.

 

[fmw]

I don't think new digital gear is going to make any difference. If you hear a difference between the player and the rips, then the problem is likely the rips. Perhaps you should improve the way you do them or the format you use. Or as an option, you might do a quick blind test to see if there really is any difference between them. It is possible that you expect the player to perform better and that biases your comparison.

 

[lianid]

I don't think new digital gear is going to make any difference. If you hear a difference between the player and the rips, then the problem is likely the rips. Perhaps you should improve the way you do them or the format you use. Or as an option, you might do a quick blind test to see if there really is any difference between them. It is possible that you expect the player to perform better and that biases your comparison.

So you are saying that Denon 2910 (in due time was here for 750 usd) isn't any better in sound than Denon 1740 (at first priced 250 usd here)?

Denon dvd 2910 received a very high score from a review on this site.


And that Dac Cyrus av 5 (first retail price 1400 usd) does not sound better that Nuforce (100 usd new)?

I compared the sound from the computer through Nuforce and cd from Denon 1740 numeruos times and from the player the sound is definitely better, at least bass is richer for sure. From the computer it's a bit dry and harsh.

Anyway, thanks for the answer. By the way I have read your posts with great interest and your opinion that digital media is not so important is very appealing to me (mostly due to financial reasons) but I am still in doubt. I have also tried to prove to local audio enthusiasts that some good quality audio files from a computer might sound not worse than a good commercial CD but without much success. Nevertheless I did some of them a blind test and they preferred a Cd burned from a computer file to an expensive original Cd with the same material.

 

[TheWarrior]

Please include a pic of your room.

The gear you have appears to be more than adequate. So improvements can only be made through room lay out/speaker orientation.

The important fact here is; a speaker is only as good as the room in which it is played!

 

[lianid]

Please include a pic of your room.

The gear you have appears to be more than adequate. So improvements can only be made through room lay out/speaker orientation.

The important fact here is; a speaker is only as good as the room in which it is played!

Thank you, I know this. My room is good enough for that, I had a chance to listen to my speakers at another place which was rather empty, and there was no sound at all.

Well, I thought my question was simple enough; will I get a better sound if I change my Denon DVD 1740 for 2910?

and the second one: or would it be better if I get good DAC's (that I mentioned; it's ' good' by my standards, of course).

That's it.

 

[Goodband]

Thank you, I know this. My room is good enough for that, I had a chance to listen to my speakers at another place which was rather empty, and there was no sound at all.

Well, I thought my question was simple enough; will I get a better sound if I change my Denon DVD 1740 for 2910?

and the second one: or would it be better if I get good DAC's (that I mentioned; it's ' good' by my standards, of course).

That's it.

Since you seems to get better SQ out of your player and assuming your are listening lossless files from your computer the Dac "COULD" improve the SQ out of your computer and bring it on par with your cd player.



Envoyé de mon SGH-I337M en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[slipperybidness]

I don't think new digital gear is going to make any difference. If you hear a difference between the player and the rips, then the problem is likely the rips. Perhaps you should improve the way you do them or the format you use. Or as an option, you might do a quick blind test to see if there really is any difference between them. It is possible that you expect the player to perform better and that biases your comparison.

+1

The OP says he likes the sound from CD player better than computer, but then says he wants to change the CD player???? That sounds like some reasoning from the GF

I would be focusing on the rips and computer and getting them up to snuff to match the CD player.

 

[fmw]

So you are saying that Denon 2910 (in due time was here for 750 usd) isn't any better in sound than Denon 1740 (at first priced 250 usd here)?

Denon dvd 2910 received a very high score from a review on this site.


And that Dac Cyrus av 5 (first retail price 1400 usd) does not sound better that Nuforce (100 usd new)?

I compared the sound from the computer through Nuforce and cd from Denon 1740 numeruos times and from the player the sound is definitely better, at least bass is richer for sure. From the computer it's a bit dry and harsh.

Anyway, thanks for the answer. By the way I have read your posts with great interest and your opinion that digital media is not so important is very appealing to me (mostly due to financial reasons) but I am still in doubt. I have also tried to prove to local audio enthusiasts that some good quality audio files from a computer might sound not worse than a good commercial CD but without much success. Nevertheless I did some of them a blind test and they preferred a Cd burned from a computer file to an expensive original Cd with the same material.

My comment comes from two years of bias controlled listening tests. We never encountered an audible difference between any two DACs or optical players. There could be some somewhere but we never encountered one. So I conclude that they don't matter and aren't worth worrying about. But, as usual, my approach to audio is in the minority and not very popular with either the industry or the enthusiasts. If you want product recommendations, others will certainly provide them.

 

[slipperybidness]

My comment comes from two years of bias controlled listening tests. We never encountered an audible difference between any two DACs or optical players. There could be some somewhere but we never encountered one. So I conclude that they don't matter and aren't worth worrying about. But, as usual, my approach to audio is in the minority and not very popular with either the industry or the enthusiasts. If you want product recommendations, others will certainly provide them.

Again, I agree.

There is 1 possible catch......we don't know anything about how the OP has his computer hooked into his system. If he is using some lousy on-mobo analog audio output, then swapping to a DAC may be just the ticket. But, that is not the scenario that you have lined out.

Edit: Sorry, I see that he says he is using a Nuforce DAC, so I do agree that swapping the digi gear is frivolous at best!

 

[fmw]

Again, I agree.

There is 1 possible catch......we don't know anything about how the OP has his computer hooked into his system. If he is using some lousy on-mobo analog audio output, then swapping to a DAC may be just the ticket. But, that is not the scenario that you have lined out.

He said he is using a Nuforce DAC.

 

[slipperybidness]

He said he is using a Nuforce DAC.

Just saw that, made an edit.

 

[PENG]

On the second hand market here there are Denon DVD 2910 (100 usd) and dac Cyrus av 5 (190 usd) and Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 (160 usd).

I can't comment on your Nuforce DAC but I can tell you my Denon DVD 3910 does not sound any better than my DAC/laptop. I have done comparison with my Xduoo TA-1, Fiio X5 (used as DAC) and the Cambridge Audio DACMagic XS. I still use it and will keep it, but not for reason of sound quality.

If I put 2910 instead of my 1740 will I get a much better sound from cd ? ( I don't care about dvd)
Or if I buy Cyrus or Cambridge Dacmagic and connect them to both computer (instead my cheap Nuforce) and my dvd player via coaxial, would it be a better alternative?

I only have the 3910, but for CD I think the 1740 should be just as good. So logically I would say the 2910 won't do any better.

If you want to be able to play 192/24 lossless files, then you need to upgrade your DAC but I am not sure I would spend $300 on the CA DACMagic. If you do, you will get better sound quality but only from better quality recordings.

 

[lianid]

Thank you PENG and thanks to all who replied. I gather I should be satisfied with what I have now.

 

[PENG]

I gather I should be satisfied with what I have now.

You got that right, yes your DAC may be the weak link relatively speaking (only because you do have very high quality speakers and amplifier) but most people will have hard tome telling it apart from more expensive ones that have better specs.

 

[lianid]

You got that right, yes your DAC may be the weak link relatively speaking (only because you do have very high quality speakers and amplifier) but most people will have hard tome telling it apart from more expensive ones that have better specs.

Thank you again, PENG, you are right, still I like better to listen to music from my Denon 1740 and I considered it the weakest chain in my system. So I thought it wouldn't hurt (to spend 100 greens I can't call a financial disaster as yet) to exchange it for a better one (2910) so much so as I occasionally watch DVD music as well. Honestly I just wanted to get a confirmation in that.

 

[PENG]

Thank you again, PENG, you are right, still I like better to listen to music from my Denon 1740 and I considered it the weakest chain in my system. So I thought it wouldn't hurt (to spend 100 greens I can't call a financial disaster as yet) to exchange it for a better one (2910) so much so as I occasionally watch DVD music as well. Honestly I just wanted to get a confirmation in that.

I understood your point. My response was based on the fact that you use the player for CDs only. I paid a lot for my DVD-3310 for SACD and DVDA at the time. As a CD player, it sounds no different than my Kenwood CD player. That Kenwood was a top model and was heavier than the Denon though. I also have an Oppo 105 that has better DAC than the Denon DVD-3310 and it does not sound any better either. I am 100% positive that if you want to hear better sound, you need to seek out the best recordings. The fact that you preferred the CD/1740 a bit more than your digital files via the Nuforce DAC (also your post#4) sort of confirmed my point already, that the upgrade won't make any audible difference if the players are still in good shape.

I started a thread to collect high quality recording discs and digital titles a while back. If I remember right it has collected more than 100 titles. Take a look and you may find something you like to try.

 

[lianid]

I understood your point. My response was based on the fact that you use the player for CDs only. I paid a lot for my DVD-3310 for SACD and DVDA at the time. As a CD player, it sounds no different than my Kenwood CD player. That Kenwood was a top model and was heavier than the Denon though. I also have an Oppo 105 that has better DAC than the Denon DVD-3310 and it does not sound any better either. I am 100% positive that if you want to hear better sound, you need to seek out the best recordings. The fact that you preferred the CD/1740 a bit more than your digital files via the Nuforce DAC (also your post#4) sort of confirmed my point already, that the upgrade won't make any audible difference if the players are still in good shape.

I started a thread to collect high quality recording discs and digital titles a while back. If I remember right it has collected more than 100 titles. Take a look and you may find something you like to try.

That your machines sound no better than Denon 3310 only raised more this model in my eyes. Oppo 105 is 1,760 $ here. If you say 3310 sounds no better that 2910 I will buy this thing tomorrow. Some say digital media all sound the same but it seems to be true from some point in the price. My friend has an expensive DVD Marantz and no less expensive CD Marantz. They reproduce same cd with difference like day and night in favour to CD player.
With cheap models the matter is very different. I had bought a cheap Blue ray DVD Philips and it sounded not bad but awful in comparison with Denon 1740.

As to the quality of source material I agree 100%. I have only recently got some good CD. That was exactly what prompted me to look for a better sound. I will sure have a look at the thread you mentioned.

 

[PENG]

That your machines sound no better than Denon 3310 only raised more this model in my eyes. Oppo 105 is 1,760 $ here.

I did not say that at all, I said it sounded no different than my Kenwood CD player, when playing my CDs of course. The 3310 has the second from the top Burr Brown (TI now) DAC 1796, the 2910 would not have the same, probably the lower end 1791 would be my guess. The 1791 was used in the 4XXX Denon AVRs up until the 4810 before Denon switched to AKM and the Burr Brown 32 bit ones, then back to AKM on the current higher end models. The 3310 probably has better analog stage than the 2910 as well.

My logic is, if even the 3310 cannot produce audibly better sound than a very old Kenwood, then what chance would it's little brother 2910 has, to sound better than the 1740. Better specs and higher price don't always result in audibly better sound.

Very often people would report hearing day and night difference between players. I think the difference they heard could have been due to other factors. Examples of such factors are: Placebo effect, triggered by price difference, the purist belief that CD player should sound better than DVD, BR, Universal players when playing CDs, different listening conditions and associated equipment etc etc etc..

For electronics including preamp, amp, media players, DACs, once you reach a certain point of diminishing return, quality of the recording, speakers and room acoustic have the most impact on sound quality. Your DVD 1740 has the Burr Brown 1756 in it that is a higher end one than the 2910's. It is a good quality DVD player and I think it is either close to, or over the point of diminishing return already. Relative to your other components, it is not your weak link. If anything, the Nuforce DAC probably is the weak link, but again whether the weakest component in the chain would result in audibly different sound to you or not, depends on other factors as well. Anyway, my opinion is just my opinion, albeit based on actual listening comparisons done over the years. Sounds like you are really tempted to spend $100 to find out. I hope it will work out for you.

 

[lianid]

Thank you very much, PENG.