AVR and PowerAmps question (Newbie)

  • Thread starter Mitch Livingstone
  • Start date
M

Mitch Livingstone

Audiophyte
First and foremost, HAPPY NEW YEAR! to everyone on the forum...


I've been lurking for a long while now, reading, watching Youtube videos, revising Ohms laws to get a better understand for what I am getting into. I've read info on this forum until my eyes bled and my brain is starting to swell.

Quick background info, I have a Samsung HT-Z310 HTib setup, I’ve had it for years now and after I moved 4 years ago I never took it out the box until a couple of weeks ago and re-hooked it up. Needless to say my ears have matured and I am now looking for a much cleaner sound movie watching experience.

My MAIN question is I honestly don't understand the Power Amp setups.. I get that you have an AVR with Pre-amp outputs, and some how it hooks up to a separate power amp for drive more "power" to speakers. Or a Preamp to a power amp (please excuse my ignorance in advance if I use terms like "Power" and other terms incorrectly as i'm learning.) Some here feel they can get away with a high end and upper quality stand alone AVR and it will power everything to their satisfaction and some suggest to get a AVR with the Preamps because as we morph into audiophiles we learn more and our ears become more in tuned and we (I) will want to upgrade to a power amp to get the most out of the speakers, which leads to my next question.


After some reading, I don't understand why someone would use a 2 channel power amp to power lets say to the (LF - RF) and then use the AVR to power the rest? (CC - LR - RR), assuming a 5.1 system, maybe a 7.2? I dunno...

- Why wouldn't you want to increase the power to EVERYTHING except the sub? I've learned that 80% of the theater experience is from the front three speakers, but I figure it would help to clean up the surround speakers as well, I am making the assumption that is what is going on here..Cleaning up the sound as he volume increases.

- Do people do this to just play with the speakers to see what sounds best for their personal setup as of course, everyone components are different and the dimension of their rooms?

- When using a power amp, is it to really get more power or is it to get the best clarity from the speakers so as you increase the volume you will reduce the chance of distortion? I did learn and understand because a quality speaker is rated for 150w don't mean you have to use all of the 150w as this would damage the speakers anyway. Is it to pump the necessary power to each speaker with the least amount of work from the AVR???

For me, I want clarity over all in my surround sound system; I want my theater experience to feel as if Scarlett Johansson herself is whispering into my ears as if she is sitting next to me. I do know it all depends on my budget and my room setup, which I won't know until I move into our next house to se what I will be working with.

Do I need power amps for this affect? Not having to turn my speakers all the way up because the power isn't there???
Sorry to the winded first post.. Hoping to learn as I go. Again, HAPPY NEW YEAR to you all!!!

-Current Setup-
55" Sony Bravia 2014 LED Full HD 120hz
Dish Network Hopper box
Samsung HT-Z310 HTiB
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Hi, Mitch, and happy new year to you, too!

In short, the analog audio signal that represents your music or movie soundtrack is very low power and is being passed through a circuit board (or more than one) inside of the electronics. In order to be able to hear that signal from your speakers, it has to be amplified. Your question, I believe, is all about - where should I amplify it?

Receivers are loved by many and hated by some - I happen to love them. They combine multiple functions into one box: such as a pre-amp (which helps you select between sources and do some modifications to the original audio), amp, tuner...and these days, audio media streamers and other network functions.

To get everything into one box at an affordable price, the companies have to limit what all they shove in there. They often do it pretty intelligently, though, and many receivers are going to have plenty of power amplification capability for most people. I've tried a number of them in the $400-$500 range, and most do an excellent job in my set up. Let me say that again - in my set up. How much power you need depends on how loud you want to listen, which speakers you have, and your room.

My recommendation is to pick out your speakers first, then pick out the electronics that best support them. For most speakers, a receiver is just fine - and it's worth getting a receiver first and finding out for yourself if you think it's lacking. If it is lacking, then you can move on to another receiver, start looking at adding external power amplification for that receiver, or go with separate components and skip a receiver all together.

As for why people suggest an external amplifier be used for only some of the channels is that the receiver still has amps in it - they just might not be enough to cleanly amplify all of the channels. Every receiver that I've seen has a single power supply that feeds multiple amplifier sections. So, if five channels require 100 Watts each during a certain movie explosions, that's 500 W that the receiver has to handle in the amps alone. Maybe it can't do that much without clipping, but maybe it can do 400 W no problem - in that case, amplifying the front two speakers with an external amp would lighten the load on the receiver enough that it wouldn't clip when playing through the other speakers. Yeah, I completely made all of those numbers up, but it was just an example. :) Anyway, amplifying only some of the speakers with external amps reduces the requirements when shopping for those amps (or amp), and it lets you use the amps inside of the receiver that you already paid for.
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
Right, this is the misconception I once had. That is, because such and such AVR is said to have 100 watts per channel, and lets say you are running 5 channels, then this means the said AVR is a 500 watt receiver. That's what I used to think, and that's how many people think. But that's not really true is it? Just because its a 100 watt per channel AVR doesn't mean its capable of cleanly supplying 100 watts to all 5 channels at once. That's what I couldn't get through my head. So, if you add an external amp, say a two channel amp to power the L and R fronts, then you have more power reserved in your AVR to power the other three speakers. Does that make sense? This is why you'll notice some specs will say "x number of watts, 2 CH. DRIVEN". This is different than saying "x number of watts, ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN".

At least this is how I understand it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Right, this is the misconception I once had. That is, because such and such AVR is said to have 100 watts per channel, and lets say you are running 5 channels, then this means the said AVR is a 500 watt receiver. That's what I used to think, and that's how many people think. But that's not really true is it? Just because its a 100 watt per channel AVR doesn't mean its capable of cleanly supplying 100 watts to all 5 channels at once. That's what I couldn't get through my head. So, if you add an external amp, say a two channel amp to power the L and R fronts, then you have more power reserved in your AVR to power the other three speakers. Does that make sense? This is why you'll notice some specs will say "x number of watts, 2 CH. DRIVEN". This is different than saying "x number of watts, ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN".

At least this is how I understand it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
You are correct for the most part. However, it is a very rare home audio installation that actually dissipates 100 watts per channel or even 50 watts per channel. Some common sense for the OP would suggest that the receiver manufacturers would all be out of business if they produced products that don't work properly in a home audio installation. Yet they seem to be doing pretty well. Their products get the job done just fine except in rare circumstances. Most of the time the AV system is using 1 to 3 channels. On occasion it has to drive 5 channels but not often and not for very long.

For the OP, there are two important things I have learned over the years. One is that amplifier power is one of the least important aspects of home audio and most AV accessory amplifiers are bought because they are wanted rather than because they are needed. The industry and other audio enthusiasts will tell you the opposite because it is more fun for the enthusiasts and more profitable for the industry players. Now you have the minority, non-mainstream view of the whole thing.
 
S

Steve Hanson

Audiophyte
Happy new year. I have some older tech stuff. I use a Yamaha mx-800u power amp & a Yamaharx-v800 receiver. I use the power amp to drive my main set of speakers in position a on power amp 2 channel mostly because I use my turntable. I also have a second set of front speakers(hooked up in receiver b position) a center speaker, rear speakers and a sub woofer when I play records just the stereo speakers hooked to power amp work. When I'm watching TV or movies all the speakers operate on the 5 channel setting. Confusing yet works with what I have
 

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