Speakers Sound More Quiet on Amp

[Adam]

You're not stupid at all, and don't worry if you bothered anyone here. The goal is to have you be happy with your setup.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm too stupid, so I'm pulling the amp. Sorry that I bothered and offended anyone. Thank you.

We all start at the same place (or at least I did) so please understand that everybody is trying to help ... in their own way. I would pull the amp too. Why would you want to use an amp that has less power than your rec'r? To see a clear benefit you would want to double the output wattage of your AVR.

Aside from that I'll mention that the guys posting in this thread can help you. I still don't understand half of what TLS says but I didn't let that stop him from making my second system totally b!tchin'. The quality of help to be had from just this handful of posters is pretty amazing.

 

[Alex2507]

don't worry if you bothered anyone here.

Actually you get extra credit for getting Mark riled up!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm just confused about it is all. I read about external amps being better, so I got one. It's cool. People who don't know much come on forums for help, not to be belittled and berated.

Yeah, ext amps won't do anything to improve the sound most of the time in most home settings.

Too bad you didn't come to us first before spending money.

Most of us own multiple amps just because we want or desire the amps. I love my 4 expensive ATI amps. It's a hobby.

Voltage gain is basically like Volume control or volume knobs. The higher the gain means the higher the volume knob has been set.

For example, an amp/AVR with a gain of 32dB means that the volume knob on the amp/AVR is set about 4dB LOUDER than an amp/AVR with a gain of 28dB.

So different amps & AVR may have different voltage gain or DEFAULT Volume settings. It does not mean the louder amp or AVR is more powerful.

When comparing amps & AVR, you have to make sure the volume is the same for both amps since the louder amp will sound better.

That's why it usually doesn't mean anything when most people claim that one amp sounds better than another amp or AVR. Each amp/AVR has different default volume setting and if you do not volume level match, the comparison means absolutely nothing.

 

[Seth=L]

Hello! Could someone explain to me why powering my L, R, C, SL, and SR off of my Rotel RMB-1075 amp sound quieter than when I had them powered by just the receiver (Yamaha RX-A3050)?

The input sensitivity of the Yamaha RX-A3050's internal amplifier is higher than the Rotel RMB-1075. This is a minor issue that I would not consider to be a problem or error of any kind. Just a difference between two amplifiers.

I have a 5.2.4 setup. My thought was that when all nine channels were powered, that they were getting less watts per channel, so I switched them to the amp.

Less potential output per channel in theory. The Yamaha is quite a powerful receiver, but that's not to say that it wouldn't benefit from a buddy amplifier to share its workload.

I don't get why they would sound more quiet to where I have to turn the volume up more.

It helps if you don't think of the volume adjustment as a power indicator. Turning it up more doesn't mean that you're power level is any different at the same actual output level (what you hear from your speakers, not what is displayed on the receiver).

Now here's something I didn't see addressed. You are having the Rotel power 5 channels of audio and leaving the other 4 channels (height channels etc) to be powered by the receiver. You ran the YPAO calibration after connecting the new amp. Now... overall was there less output from all speakers, or just the ones connected to the Rotel amplifier? It would be my thought that the calibration would base its mean output levels from your front speakers and then adjust the rest of the speaker output levels to correspond with those. If it did that correctly then you are 100% fine and I would not worry a titch.

So with that said you should have absolutely no concern of loss of potential output, in fact you may have a slight increase in potential output. The only difference would be the numeric value that is presented by the receiver's level control.

Why would the room correction not account for this and adjust? Also, how can you say that the Yamaha is more powerful? No AVR puts out its rated power to all channels simultaneously. If I had all 9 channels driven, there's no way it was getting close to 165, but with the Rotel, it should be getting 120 minimum.

I agree with this for the most part. If you already committed to the Rotel I don't see any logical reason to remove it from the setup. I don't merit setting the receiver to a higher "level" in order to achieve the same output you had from the receiver alone as a logical reason to ditch the amp as it's just a byproduct of a different input sensitivity.

Going off of the specs, of both the amp and the AVR, I am taking it to mean that I may have to raise the volume level on the AVR to push the amp to more voltage, but I will have cleaner power going to the speakers throughout the entire volume/power band? I just need to drive the amp harder to draw more power to achieve the result that I want which is cleaner/louder sound before distortion?

No, you would be pushing the amplifier to supply a minute amount more voltage. You not taxing the amplifier. It just needs slightly more input voltage from the preamplifier to achieve the same output as the one inside the receiver. To clarify that does not inherently mean that amplifier inside the receiver has more power than the Rotel.

I will also reiterate what others have said, the Rotel only needs 1v to achieve full output, of which I have no doubt the Yamaha is capable of supplying. Historically Yamaha receivers have achieved at least 2v or more on the preouts.

I did run YPAO before and after from 6 of 8 locations. I only did 6 because that's how many seats I have in my room. I realize that this was incorrect according to the Audyssey video that I watched because it included no depth changes. I'm too stupid, so I'm pulling the amp. Sorry that I bothered and offended anyone. Thank you.

I hope you have a chance to come back and read this and maybe it makes more sense. You're not stupid, things just weren't explained in a way that you would understand. Good luck. [/quote][/quote]

 

[Irvrobinson]

For example, an amp/AVR with a gain of 32dB means that the volume knob on the amp/AVR is set about 4dB LOUDER than an amp/AVR with a gain of 28dB.

That's a pretty good way to describe it, assuming someone understands what a decibel is. We've gotten so used to talking to ourselves on this forum we've forgotten what it's like to have true novices around.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I would pull the amp too. Why would you want to use an amp that has less power than your rec'r? To see a clear benefit you would want to double the output wattage of your AVR.

Probably the best advice so far on this thread. I’ll admit I didn’t take the time to look up the specs for the receiver or amp. Due to its (presumably) more robust construction and power supply, the amp might make something of a difference (headroom) if the OP had inefficient speakers and he was running his receiver close to wide open all the time, but that’d be about it the only advantage. Barring that, I’d agree – return the amp, it isn’t doing you any benefit.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[PENG]

Actually you get extra credit for getting Mark riled up!

Really? I want extra credit too so I am going to try..

 

[Seth=L]

Really? I want extra credit too so I am going to try..

Praise liberal agenda.

 

[AbbyDaddy]

It did bring the output of all the speakers down it seemed. I think YPAO did match the levels, I think the only way I'd benefit is to get that ATI amp that does 300 wpc. Thanks for all the comments. I do have a better understanding of what was said and explained more now. I took the previous comments rough because my dad spoke to me 100% of the time growing up that way. We no longer talk, so sorry I was so sensitive.

I did pull the amp today and it's back to being better.

 

[PENG]

It did bring the output of all the speakers down it seemed. I think YPAO did match the levels, I think the only way I'd benefit is to get that ATI amp that does 300 wpc. Thanks for all the comments. I do have a better understanding of what was said and explained more now. I took the previous comments rough because my dad spoke to me 100% of the time growing up that way. We no longer talk, so sorry I was so sensitive.

I did pull the amp today and it's back to being better.

I think you are doing the wise thing. That Rotel definitely has input sensitivity of 1V /33kOhm, that's right from Rotel's product catalog. The RMB-1075 is at least 10 years old. Amps do last for a long time but depending on how they have been used and subjected to, it is hard to say if your unit has deteriorated and is no longer on spec.

If you want more headroom for serious two channel listening, to beat the RX-A3050 you should focus on 300WPC amps. If you are considering an ATI amp, you are on the right track.