NHT Black Friday started

[Tom._White]

Looked at the NHT website a little while ago. They have started their Black Friday sale already. Didn't look at everything, but I bought a pair of the SuperZero's for $80 each.

Always been curious about those things. They remind me of a small pair of speakers I had back in high school.

I won't say how long ago that was, but the history books only had three chapters back then!

 

[KEW]

They definitely need (and deserve) a small sub. Something like a Sub-1000 would round them out nicely for a bedroom music setup.
If using a stereo receiver, just gradually turn up the sub until it barely starts to draw attention to itself, and that should be close.
Of course you can mate them with a bigger sub, but if you have a good sized living room, they will get lost in there. I enjoy mine in a 12x14 bedroom.

 

[Tom._White]

They definitely need (and deserve) a small sub. Something like a Sub-1000 would round them out nicely for a bedroom music setup.
If using a stereo receiver, just gradually turn up the sub until it barely starts to draw attention to itself, and that should be close.
Of course you can mate them with a bigger sub, but if you have a good sized living room, they will get lost in there. I enjoy mine in a 12x14 bedroom.

KEW,

These will be used in a 2 channel, music only setting. I've been on a bit of a "simplifying" binge recently. Sold all my home theater speakers because I got tired of my living room looking like Stonehenge, with all the speakers and stands.

I don't listen to my music at a volume much above conversation level (OK, MAYBE once in a great while. Ha!), so the thinking is small and simple. If I add a sub, it will be one that is small and likely cheap. Don't need or want thunder, just want to be able to hear what McCartney is doing when listening to The Beatles. And yes, I am 64!

 

[KEW]

You've got them coming, so try them out. I just hope they work okay in that larger room. If I was recommending I would recommend the AA monitors from Philharmonic audio for about $220 a pair shipped they are bookshelves but probably about three to four times the volume of the NHTs. With them you could seriously get away without a sub woofer for music only.

 

[Tom._White]

Actually, I saw those on their website. The off-set tweeter looks odd, but I suppose there is a reason? Noticed their frequency graph only showed down to 200hz in the picture. Odd again, seeing how they speak of pretty low hz numbers for the speakers.

Anyway, those are much larger than what I have been looking for. 16" tall isn't small in my book and, as said earlier I'm looking for speakers on the smaller side of things.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[Tom._White]

Well, the SuperZero's arrived. Listened to them for a number of hours now. Moved them to various positions. Ran the calibration/eq setup on the receiver a few times and......

They just sound kinda hollow. At keast, that is as close as I can think of to describe it. Almost like the cabinets were plastic instead of wood.

Very disappointed. So, I'll return them and the search continues.

 

[KEW]

It is a shame that the AA monitors are too large. I didn't comment on the FR stopping at 200Hz because you indicated the dimensions keeps them from being a candidate (they are also rear ported). Dennis addresses the 200Hz cut-off with the Philharmonic 3's as quoted below:

The following measurements are “anechoic” and are restricted to the region above 200 Hz. The test signal that produces these plots is very short, and the subsequent measurements are free of the thousands of reflections that would otherwise produce a jumble of peaks and cancellations from these reflections. The plots thus measure the inherent response of the speaker system. Because the measurement “window” is so short, it is impossible to capture the longer sound waves of frequencies below about 200 Hz. The following section, “Woofer Enclosure Design and Performance,” addresses the predicted response of the Philharmonic 3 below 200 Hz.

The lack of a sub with the SuperZeros...well, they just don't go low enough to have a "solid" sound. I run a sub with mine and what I do is turn the sub up until I can barely start to distinctly hear it and back down just a touch. For music, the sub should disappear into the music (unless you listen to bass-centric music like Dubstep).

It is a simple fact that you can only get so much bass out of a small box. There are thing you can do to squeeze a little more bass out of a small box, but they are not free!

Will you put speakers on a stand or in a bookcase? If a bookcase, what dimensions are you limited to?

You might consider the HVL-1. It is still weak on bass, but compared to the SuperZero, it is much better!
http://www.wavecrestaudio.com/products/hvl-1-two-way-loudspeaker-pair

Edit: Go to post #3 of this thread for my comparison of teh HVL-1 and the AA Monitor:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-2015-affordable-accuracy-speakers-by-dennis-murphy.95661/#post-1092558

 

[Tom._White]

Actually tried with a sub. The graphs I've seen say the Zeros go down to 100hz, so I knew what to expect, and this is far from my first go 'round with speakers. Heck, I'm 64, and have been a musician since I can remember. And they are on stands. I would never be dumb enough to put them inside an enclosure like you wondered about.

Anyway, I know you are trying to be helpful, and I appreciate it. Finding the right speakers can be one of those things where you have to enjoy the journey almost as much as the destination.

 

[KEW]

My reason for asking about bookcase vs stands was to know if rear ported was ruled out. A bookcase is probably not optimum for any speaker but if have heard some pretty good sound from speakers in bookcases over the years. However, a rear ported speaker can pretty much be expected to categorically sound bad in a bookcase.

The HVL-1's are front ported, but that is not a concern now that I know you are using stands.

If you play an acoustic instrument and value accuracy, Dennis Murphy's is the best speaker you can find in the $200 range among any speakers that I know of.

What receiver are you using, and what sub? Do you remember what the crossover frequency was that the AVR assigned for the sub/SuperZero?
You have me curious. While my SuperZero's do not have the highest frequencies to replicate chimes, they otherwise do well with the Velodyne VMS-8 sub I use. I don't think you need such a nice sub, but some subs don't play up to 150Hz very well. For those speakers I think SVS's Merlin is correct - for an AVR managed crossover, crossover at 120Hz:
http://www.svsound.com/pages/merlin

 

[shadyJ]

My reason for asking about bookcase vs stands was to know if rear ported was ruled out. A bookcase is probably not optimum for any speaker but if have heard some pretty good sound from speakers in bookcases over the years. However, a rear ported speaker can pretty much be expected to categorically sound bad in a bookcase.

Why do you think a rear-ported speaker will sound any worse than any other kind of speaker in book case? I hear this from time to time, and it strikes me as an audio myth. I would love to hear the rationalization behind this. I would love to see measurements back this up. It doesn't have much in the way of logic or evidence to support it. I think it gets repeated a lot because it 'seems' like it might make sense, at least if you stop there and don't think about it anymore.

 

[crossedover]

Why do you think a rear-ported speaker will sound any worse than any other kind of speaker in book case? I hear this from time to time, and it strikes me as an audio myth. I would love to hear the rationalization behind this. I would love to see measurements back this up. It doesn't have much in the way of logic or evidence to support it. I think it gets repeated a lot because it 'seems' like it might make sense, at least if you stop there and don't think about it anymore.

From my understanding closer to the rear and encased, the mid bass/ bass can become boommy from excessive reinforcement

 

[KEW]

Why do you think a rear-ported speaker will sound any worse than any other kind of speaker in book case? I hear this from time to time, and it strikes me as an audio myth. I would love to hear the rationalization behind this. I would love to see measurements back this up. It doesn't have much in the way of logic or evidence to support it. I think it gets repeated a lot because it 'seems' like it might make sense, at least if you stop there and don't think about it anymore.

I won't argue the point with you, because I have no personal experience with it.
I have run speakers in a bookcase with pretty good sound, but they were front ported.

 

[shadyJ]

From my understanding closer to the rear and encased, the mid bass/ bass can become boommy from excessive reinforcement

Some people think that the compartment somehow causes more boundary loading than normal, but think about the total energy that is being reflected- it really isn't anymore than a flat surface could possibly reflect, especially considering the frequencies which the port emit are always bass frequencies.