Disappointed in bass response

[Auditor55]

I have to admit the SVS PB12-Plus look very tempting. But considering my room size I would most likely need two. And at $1250 a piece that is hard to justify. How would you feel about going with two HSU VTF-15H MK2 for a savings of $700? Is the difference in performance really worth $700 dollars? And this begs the question do I really need two subs?? Would a larger more powerful one do the work of two?

Please let us know what you purchase and the results of you get after set up. I still encourage you to take into account your room and sub positioning, you can drop sub after sub and still not get the output you're looking for, some rooms are like a vacuum when it comes to LF's, so keep that in mind.

 

[Auditor55]

Id bet you that that statement was directed at speakers not subs, and even then with a flat speaker you can tailor the sound with eq without taxing the amp section above 100hz.

Auto-cal programs like Audessey, YPAO, MCACC etc. seem to adjust your set up to a flat frequency response, that is why some people will go in afterwards and adjust the bass, or run hot by 2-3 db's, simply because they don't always like the results those auto-cal programs, especially for movies.

 

[TLS Guy]

People like Gene and others argue that a flat frequency response isn't that good. That it won't sound good, it would produce a boring sound.

You are wrong again!

You absolutely do not want to equalize for flat at the listening position. Music will sound over bright and awful.

Speakers need to be as flat and neutral as you can design and build them, with a nice dispersion pattern and a good step response.

The dispersion is in many ways key. As you move further away from the speaker, then you get an increasing proportion of reflected sound. The reflected sound has a significant reduction in HF compared to the direct sound. So at the listening position the frequency will, and should not be flat. If it is it will sound awful.

There is more to clean sound than flat frequency response. Very flat bass can indeed sound muddy. This comes down to Q. You get a good idea of this from the step response. Low Q speakers have a much more natural and clean bass than high Q ones.

Good speakers have a flat frequency response a good dispersion pattern mirroring the axis response but smoothly falling away at the high frequencies, and a Q of around 0.5 certainly less than 0.7.

Therefore a good speaker with a superior dispersion will have less HF at the listening position and sound superior.

 

[Auditor55]

You are wrong again!

You absolutely do not want to equalize for flat at the listening position. Music will sound over bright and awful.

Speakers need to be as flat and neutral as you can design and build them, with a nice dispersion pattern and a good step response.

The dispersion is in many ways key. As you move further away from the speaker, then you get an increasing proportion of reflected sound. The reflected sound has a significant reduction in HF compared to the direct sound. So at the listening position the frequency will, and should not be flat. If it is it will sound awful.

There is more to clean sound than flat frequency response. Very flat bass can indeed sound muddy. This comes down to Q. You get a good idea of this from the step response. Low Q speakers have a much more natural and clean bass than high Q ones.

Good speakers have a flat frequency response a good dispersion pattern mirroring the axis response but smoothly falling away at the high frequencies, and a Q of around 0.5 certainly less than 0.7.

Therefore a good speaker with a superior dispersion will have less HF at the listening position and sound superior.

I haven't given an opinion on this topic, so how have you proven me wrong. I just shared what I heard Gene say, I did not opine myself.

 

[TLS Guy]

I haven't given an opinion on this topic, so how have you proven me wrong. I just shared what I heard Gene say, I did not opine myself.

My point is you have misunderstood Gene.

Gene consistently supports speakers with a flat frequency response and other desirable attributes.

He also makes the point I do, that flat at the listening position is not desirable. The direct and reflected sounds needs to arrive in a desirable balance, and that means the response will be modified by the room at the listening position as it should be.

 

[Auditor55]

My point is you have misunderstood Gene.

Gene consistently supports speakers with a flat frequency response and other desirable attributes.

He also makes the point I do, that flat at the listening position is not desirable. The direct and reflected sounds needs to arrive in a desirable balance, and that means the response will be modified by the room at the listening position as it should be.

Well my comments were pertaining, to subs, low frequency/bass and not speaker response.

 

[crossedover]

Well my comments were pertaining, to subs, low frequency/bass and not speaker response.

Can you point to where Gene stated that?

 

[Auditor55]

Can you point to where Gene stated that?

Watch Gene's video on his YouTube channel regarding using dual subs and fast forward to the 9 minute mark.

 

[crossedover]

Watch Gene's video on his YouTube channel regarding using dual subs and fast forward to the 9 minute mark.

Thanks, As I stated earlier you want a flat speaker response to start with. Gene's comments in the video have to do with post eq not the design of the speaker.