Disappointed in bass response

[herbu]

Do I go with two subs like the HSU VTF-15H or one larger sub like the Reaction Audio Echo 18.

My approach was to go with one big monster sub first. Later, when the budget allowed, I added a second.

This was my thinking. I am the primary listener. Though usually my wife is watching/listening with me, she cares less than I do about the audio. So I determined I could set the one sub so my chair was in the sweet spot and got great audio. My wife likely wouldn't even know, and wouldn't care if she did.

When I did add a second monster sub, my wife could clearly hear the improvement, and she liked it. AND I had not bought anything that needed replacement. So to my way of thinking, it was cheaper than starting w/ 2 smaller subs, then replacing them both.

Keep in mind that a single monster sub will thump everybody's chest... just some more than others. The sweet spot doesn't mean everybody else gets nothing, just less. And unless they are audiophiles, they likely won't know unless you point it out.

 

[Auditor55]

Some things I took away from the OP

I am trying to maximize the bass in my HT. I have read thru numerous articles and blogs regarding sub placement, acoustics and basics of how they operate. I find myself just getting bogged down with all the technical minusia. He is obliviously working hard to enjoy his HT and get the most out of his purchases I have a considerable amount of money invested and although I am happy with the overall performance I think for the money I spent the bass
response is surely lacking. He would certainly like more than he is getting I have moved my subs to all the possible locations ran the Audyssey and in all honesty I am hard pressed to tell the difference. He has most likely ruled out a null Maybe it's a limitation of my subs or placement. Maybe I am just expecting to much from a home system that cost under $5000. I don't know. My subs are currently opposite corner loaded. My HT room is 23x19 with 8ft ceiling. The room is fully carpeted with soft blind material on the windows and a large L shaped couch. I think the room acoustics are better then what most people have to work with. Although he isnt in a dedicated room, his room dosent seem to be his issue I am running Aperion Grand speakers with two Aperion Bravus II 10D subs. Marantz SR 6007 and Emotiva XPA 3. And a Oppo BD 103 BlueRay Player. Are there any suggestions on how to increase the bass without replacing equipment. He hopes he has missed a step in his setup






The most important thing from the above is: Are there any suggestions on how to increase the bass without replacing equipment? Unfortunately the answer is no. Even if he tweaks every last bit out his subs, he still would be dissatisfied. For the money he spent on them for the performance isnt a high value. We have all made purchases that we expected more performance for the price we paid. He will be fine after an upgrade, which i see no where in the OP that states I will not upgrade


From Gene's review
"The 10D appears to have usable bass extension down to around 30Hz though don't expect much SPL at those frequencies. Below 30Hz the output is dominated by 2nd harmonic distortion. Trying to get this sub to play usable bass below 30Hz at meaningful SPL levels is like expecting Sarah Palin to actually be funny doing stand up comedy or Obama to grow balls and actually make good on his promises. "

I think it would be good if the OP came back and clarified exactly what it is he's trying to obtain, because I don't think he's made that clear. Based upon his initial comments, I don't think has taken in measurements of his room to get an idea what's going. I highly doubt he doesn't have any nulls at all. When I read posts on various HT enthusiast forums such as this, enthusiast are either complaining about two much bass or not enough bass, regardless of the subwoofer(s) in use.

As for Gene's comments, I have much respect for him, however Gene is an avowed basshead. Seriously, I wouldn't asking Gene for some question regarding his above quoted comments.

Anyway, I don't know why some of you are so upset, I basically agreed with the prevailing opinion in this thread, if he's looking loudness at below 30hz (or HT levels) his subs are probably inadequate. However, everyone's isn't looking to shake the foundations of their house.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think it would be good if the OP came back and clarified exactly what it is he's trying to obtain, because I don't think he's made that clear. Based upon his initial comments, I don't think has taken in measurements of his room to get an idea what's going. I highly doubt he doesn't have any nulls at all. When I read posts on various HT enthusiast forums such as this, enthusiast are either complaining about two much bass or not enough bass, regardless of the subwoofer(s) in use.

As for Gene's comments, I have much respect for him, however Gene is an avowed basshead. Seriously, I wouldn't asking Gene for some question regarding his above quoted comments.

Anyway, I don't know why some of you are so upset, I basically agreed with the prevailing opinion in this thread, if he's looking loudness at below 30hz (or HT levels) his subs are probably inadequate. However, everyone's isn't looking to shake the foundations of their house.

His problem is a perceived lack of bass. He wants more. However if he turns up his miserable subs they bottom as you would expect.

Poor miserable subs are a total waste of space and there are far too many of them.

 

[Auditor55]

His problem is a perceived lack of bass. He wants more. However if he turns up his miserable subs they bottom as you would expect.

Poor miserable subs are a total waste of space and there are far too many of them.

Thank fully that's only you're opinion. I will see if the OP comes back and clarify because I did not read where he specified output or frequency response in regards to being disappointed with his bass.

 

[crossedover]

Thank fully that's only you're opinion. I will see if the OP comes back and clarify because I did not read where he specified output or frequency response in regards to being disappointed with his bass.

LOL the thread title is Disappointed in Bass Response, I doubt audibly its anything other than spl or lack of low bass and a combination of both thereof

 

[Auditor55]

LOL the thread title is Disappointed in Bass Response, I doubt audibly its anything other than spl or lack of low bass and a combination of both thereof

So you rather not have OP make clear what he wants, because it certainly not clear to me. You assume that's what the original poster meant because, as I pointed out before, you and most people responding in this thread, have that mentality.

 

[crossedover]

So you rather not have OP make clear what he wants.

Of course that's the goal to help.

So you rather not have OP make clear what he wants, because it certainly not clear to me. You assume that's what the original poster meant because, as I pointed out before, you and most people responding in this thread, have that mentality.

thanks, never would have have thought about the OPs needs



waits for the troll

 

[Bizarro_Stormy]

I will see if the OP comes back and clarify because I did not read where he specified output or frequency response in regards to being disappointed with his bass.

The OP did make a statement which makes clear , to me, what he's looking for:

...Do I go with two subs like the HSU VTF-15H or one larger sub like the Reaction Audio Echo 18...

Seems like he wants to bring the boom-boom...

 

[herbu]

he's looking loudness at below 30hz... However, everyone's isn't looking to shake the foundations of their house.

Everyone who wants loudness below 30Hz is.

 

[Blue Dude]

My HT room is 23x19 with 8ft ceiling. ... I am running Aperion Grand speakers with two Aperion Bravus II 10D subs.

I have a room that's not very different from yours, a bit smaller in cubic footage, and I replaced a very capable monster sub with two smaller ones in opposite corners. After some trial and error I ended up with two SVS PB-2000's and haven't looked back. What little I'm missing in slam from the monster is more than made up for in smooth, linear bass across all seats.

You get a price break from SVS if you buy them in pairs and you'll be close to your $1500 budget, minus whatever your Aperions sell for. I'd look at those, or maybe a pair of their cylindrical PC-2000's.

 

[crossedover]

I have a room that's not very different from yours, a bit smaller in cubic footage, and I replaced a very capable monster sub with two smaller ones in opposite corners. After some trial and error I ended up with two SVS PB-2000's and haven't looked back. What little I'm missing in slam from the monster is more than made up for in smooth, linear bass across all seats.

You get a price break from SVS if you buy them in pairs and you'll be close to your $1500 budget, minus whatever your Aperions sell for. I'd look at those, or maybe a pair of their cylindrical PC-2000's.

Im sure he would be happy with your situation, however his two subs are not applicable for his room. In a smaller room and a music only system, Im sure these two subs would ok for most music, but never for HT

 

[herbu]

Im sure these two subs would ok for most music, but never for HT

Agree. Ya know, Mr. Raz never really said what he wanted... just more bass for his HT. I'm guessing he means movies, not specifically music. He wants the chest thump. And using his bonus room over the garage lends itself quite nicely to that kind of HT.

Raz, have you done anything yet? Not sure if you thought about it, but getting one monster sub doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of your other subs, at least not right away.

Like you, I had a couple "baby" subs. Got one monster, (Rythmik FV15HP). I replaced one of my babies with the monster and kept using the other baby. For music at normal levels, the 2 subs still smoothed the nulls and worked pretty well. Of course, for monster movies, the monster sub handled most of the work.

Eventually I got a second monster sub, (SVS PB13U), and replaced the second baby. Now, not only was the bass in normal volume music evenly distributed around the room, so were the big chest thumping, window rattling movies and the rock concert volume music.

My point: You already have 2 baby subs. If you buy 2 toddler subs, one day you'll still graduate to monster subs. Then you'll have 2 babies and 2 toddlers to somehow dispose of. (I suppose you could drop them off at your local fire station.) But if you go ahead and get one monster now, you won't be spending money on something you're still gonna want to replace... and you can still use one of your babies with it.

Get the beast!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I may have missed this, but have you tried using Audyssey DYNAMIC EQ?

DEQ does an excellent job equalizing the bass in my rooms.

I think before buying anything new, you might want to do a few things.

1. Set the Subwoofer levels +3.0dB higher than the other speaker levels.
2. Turn on Audyssey Dynamic EQ.
3. Watch Interstellar BD.

If you are still not happy with the bass, then buy a big new sub.

 

[Ras777]

Once again I want to thank everyone for there advice. Just to clear up a few misconceptions. I do have a dedidcated HT room. In regards to usage( 70% movies 30% music). I have no issues when playing music. Unfortunately when I was watching movies with lots of bass like Prometheus and Tranformers I was not impressed. I dont just want to hear the sound of the ship landing on the alien planet I want to feel it. Isnt that what a good HT should do. I am a bit confused on why the Aperion guys thought the 10D would be ok with my room size. Nevertheless it has become apparent that they need to go. I am leaning towards the HSU VTF 15H MK2. Buying one now and another in 3 to 6 months. The Rythmik FV15HP also is in the running. The bottom line is I want a sub that delivers the SPL with quality. Hopefully I can do this within my budget.

 

[Auditor55]

I have a room that's not very different from yours, a bit smaller in cubic footage, and I replaced a very capable monster sub with two smaller ones in opposite corners. After some trial and error I ended up with two SVS PB-2000's and haven't looked back. What little I'm missing in slam from the monster is more than made up for in smooth, linear bass across all seats.

You get a price break from SVS if you buy them in pairs and you'll be close to your $1500 budget, minus whatever your Aperions sell for. I'd look at those, or maybe a pair of their cylindrical PC-2000's.

Thanks for your input. Your point proves to some, better based doesn't just me more SPL's at low frequencies, although your PC 2,000's can rock the house. Personally, If I had slam in one area of my room and lacking in the other, I would be disappointed in my bass response, that I why asked the OP to make that clear, now he has made that clear.

 

[Auditor55]

Once again I want to thank everyone for there advice. Just to clear up a few misconceptions. I do have a dedidcated HT room. In regards to usage( 70% movies 30% music). I have no issues when playing music. Unfortunately when I was watching movies with lots of bass like Prometheus and Tranformers I was not impressed. I dont just want to hear the sound of the ship landing on the alien planet I want to feel it. Isnt that what a good HT should do. I am a bit confused on why the Aperion guys thought the 10D would be ok with my room size. Nevertheless it has become apparent that they need to go. I am leaning towards the HSU VTF 15H MK2. Buying one now and another in 3 to 6 months. The Rythmik FV15HP also is in the running. The bottom line is I want a sub that delivers the SPL with quality. Hopefully I can do this within my budget.

I'm glad you made that clear. As one of the other posters suggested, you don't need to get rid of the Aperion subs, you could use them in addition to a newer more powerful sub.

 

[crossedover]

I'm glad you made that clear. As one of the other posters suggested, you don't need to get rid of the Aperion subs, you could use them in addition to a newer more powerful sub.

As long as he has the gain very low, or else he is going to hear them bottom out on movies with low bass.

 

[Auditor55]

Im sure he would be happy with your situation, however his two subs are not applicable for his room. In a smaller room and a music only system, Im sure these two subs would ok for most music, but never for HT

Since the original poster has made clear what he meant by being disappointed in bass, I have no arguments against what you are saying if that is his preference. However, you do realize in the vast majority of movie content, there is very little information below 30 HZ? There is some movies, mostly loud action movies like Transformers. BTW, I own that movie

 

[Auditor55]

As long as he has the gain very low, or else he is going to hear them bottom out on movies with low bass.

I would suggest that he studies Dr. Earl Geddes approach and implementations of adding sub-woofers in a small room for better frequency response. Using that approach, he doesn't need the Aperions to do the ULF frequency work.

 

[lsiberian]

Once again I want to thank everyone for there advice. Just to clear up a few misconceptions. I do have a dedidcated HT room. In regards to usage( 70% movies 30% music). I have no issues when playing music. Unfortunately when I was watching movies with lots of bass like Prometheus and Tranformers I was not impressed. I dont just want to hear the sound of the ship landing on the alien planet I want to feel it. Isnt that what a good HT should do. I am a bit confused on why the Aperion guys thought the 10D would be ok with my room size. Nevertheless it has become apparent that they need to go. I am leaning towards the HSU VTF 15H MK2. Buying one now and another in 3 to 6 months. The Rythmik FV15HP also is in the running. The bottom line is I want a sub that delivers the SPL with quality. Hopefully I can do this within my budget.

Don't let the troll distract you. Many kids have the week off from school and some of them troll Audio forums for fun. Hopefully they learn something valuable they'll keep in their head when they grow up, but I suggest not replying to them or taking their advice. There is a reason we have the likes received number.