Disappointed in bass response

[Ras777]

I am trying to maximize the bass in my HT. I have read thru numerous articles and blogs regarding sub placement, acoustics and basics of how they operate. I find myself just getting bogged down with all the technical minusia. I have a considerable amount of money invested and although I am happy with the overall performance I think for the money I spent the bass response is surely lacking. I have moved my subs to all the possible locations ran the Audyssey and in all honesty I am hard pressed to tell the difference. Maybe it's a limitation of my subs or placement. Maybe I am just expecting to much from a home system that cost under $5000. I don't know. My subs are currently opposite corner loaded. My HT room is 23x19 with 8ft ceiling. The room is fully carpeted with soft blind material on the windows and a large L shaped couch. I think the room acoustics are better then what most people have to work with. I am running Aperion Grand speakers with two Aperion Bravus II 10D subs. Marantz SR 6007 and Emotiva XPA 3. And a Oppo BD 103 BlueRay Player. Are there any suggestions on how to increase the bass without replacing equipment.

 

[crossedover]

Those subs really are not adequate for your room size and still dont have enough slam for a HT.

 

[Irvrobinson]

A few questions:

1. Have you made sure all of your speaker cables are wired in consistent phase? In other words, have you connect the + and - terminals consistently? One out of phase speaker can hurt bass.

2. How have you set up your mains, for large or small?

3. Have you considered running some test tones (available on the internet) and listening for where you have peaks and dips in your response?

4. Is your room on a slab or a suspended floor?

5. Where is your seating position relative to the speakers and the subs?

6. How far are the mains and subs from the walls?

 

[Ras777]

Great. Not exactly what I wanted to hear. I bought all my equipment with room size in mind. Maybe I received some bad advice here. Thank you for your honest opinion. What would be your recommendation?

 

[crossedover]

Here is the 12d measured, and IMHO wouldn't be that great either in your room


http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=87

 

[fmw]

I think two 10 inchers should provide adequate bass, if not ideal. I think you may just need to turn up the volume know on the subs a bit. If the problem is that the subs won't reproduce LFE adquately then you need to replace them. Turn them up and see how that goes.

 

[Ras777]

Irvrobinson,
Yes all connections have been checked numerous times. I am very particular with that type of stuff. Seating is 4ft off of back wall. Mains are 5ft off front wall and set to small. Crossover for mains show 90 Hz. The room is above garage(typical bonus room). I currently have subs 12" from center of speaker cone to wall. One in the left front corner the other right back corner hoping this would maximize the bass.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Irvrobinson,
Yes all connections have been checked numerous times. I am very particular with that type of stuff. Seating is 4ft off of back wall. Mains are 5ft off front wall and set to small. Crossover for mains show 90 Hz. The room is above garage(typical bonus room). I currently have subs 12" from center of speaker cone to wall. One in the left front corner the other right back corner hoping this would maximize the bass.

I think it's worth a shot to try 60hz xover point

 

[Irvrobinson]

Have you tried setting the mains to large?

 

[crossedover]

I think two 10 inchers should provide adequate bass, if not ideal. I think you may just need to turn up the volume know on the subs a bit. If the problem is that the subs won't reproduce LFE adquately then you need to replace them. Turn them up and see how that goes.

Not these subs, minimal output below 35hz. Maybe two JLs or velos. For music, OK, maybe. There isn't much chance for reference level below 40hz

 

[TLS Guy]

Your main problem is your subs. They are miserable puny efforts. There is a 12" diver in a box likely far too small with two PRs.

The result is subs rolling off at 50 Hz, and all done by 28 Hz, with a sharp 36 db per octave roll off below 28 Hz. This sharp roll of is typical of PR designs.

By the measurements Aperions specs. are significantly embellished.

All is not lost until you can replace the subs. Your mains are likely more capable then your subs in the bass.

Run those Aperions full range. Set the receiver LFE + main, so the towers are full range and just supplemented with the subs. Forget Audyssey, and just set your sub levels by ear.

Your are not going to get floor shaking bass, but you should get a good balance for most music.

 

[Ras777]

BTW I have tried turning up the volume a bit but unfortunately with certain movies they start to clip. I have played with the signal level on my Marantz and the volume level on the sub as per the manufacturer of the sub. But this does not seem to help. If I increase the signal level on my AV receiver I need to lower the volume on the amp to keep it from clipping. Seems like semantics to me.

 

[shadyJ]

It's time to lose the subs. They would barely be adequate for a desktop PC system let alone a home theater. If you are not in a position to replace them at the moment, I would move them both near-field, like right behind your listening position seating, or right next to your seat. That might help a little bit by having your ears catch more of their energy before it is lost in the room. I would look into replacing them with a pair of ported 15"s from Hsu, Rythmik, or Reaction Audio.

 

[Ras777]

Wow!! Are these subs really that bad?? I mean not even good enough for a desktop PC? Really? At $600 a piece and the reputation of Aperion I expected more then just HTiB for crying out loud!! $1200 wasted?

 

[crossedover]

Wow!! Are these subs really that bad?? I mean not even good enough for a desktop PC? Really? At $600 a piece and the reputation of Aperion I expected more then just HTiB for crying out loud!! $1200 wasted?

For HT in your room, yes. Look at the link I provided for the 12s

 

[shadyJ]

Wow!! Are these subs really that bad?? I mean not even good enough for a desktop PC? Really? At $600 a piece and the reputation of Aperion I expected more then just HTiB for crying out loud!! $1200 wasted?

I should add the caveat that it depends on your expectations. Some people are perfectly happy to have just a little bit of bass to shore up the low notes in their old jazz records. Others want a sub that will punch them in the chest with the impact of an artillery shell. Personally I would not be happy with the Aperion subs even for my PC desktop system, but I am a bit demanding regarding bass. But yeah, those subs look pretty bad. The Bravus 12d was tested by audioholics here and it wasn't all bad, but it didn't have much in the way of deep bass, although its 40-50 Hz output was not terrible.

If you purchased the subs within the past 60 days, you may be able to return them with free return shipping, that is Aperion's policy.

 

[Ras777]

I did...then cryed. Thanks everone for your input. I guess at this point I will adjust the crossover and let the towers work a bit harder. This was a painful lesson. Feel free on offering recommendations on subs that will work well in my room.
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[tyhjaarpa]

If you bought them recently I would ask the retailer if you can return them. If not then try to sell them as used.

What is your set budget for new subs now?

 

[Ras777]

At this point it will depend on what I can get for my subs. They are two years old so I cannot return them. Would $1500 buy me a sub that would work well with my room size?

 

[crossedover]

At this point it will depend on what I can get for my subs. They are two years old so I cannot return them. Would $1500 buy me a sub that would work well with my room size?

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-118ht/

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/collections/subwoofers/products/echo-18?variant=1107637857

Are a few that work in larger rooms