4 Bose 301's in need of receiver with digital input.

T

Taelan28

Audiophyte
Ok, this is fairly complex and the beginning of my research. I'll do my best to present it.

I have 4 Bose 301's, I've come to the conclusion that my intent of tacking on a center speaker and a woofer would be insufficient and woefully inadequate compared to the other 4 bose speakers, and after some thought and some brief experience, I realize that despite surround sound, most of the important sounds come out the center speaker. I want to utilize my 301s. Further, even with regular Dolby 4 speaker surround its still pretty damn good.

1. What I want: A stereo receiver with optical audio or HDMI and 400-600 watts of power to fuel the 4 Bose 301s. If this kind of receiver is out there then my search is over.

2. I want full use of my 4 Bose 301s with out missing audio.

3. If only 5.1 receivers have a digital in, and I go with one, but only have 4 Bose 301's to hook up,
a) can I still get full Dolby surround sound or am I doomed to always miss the dedicated sound coming out of the center speaker and woofer?
b) will setting my Xbox One to plain Dolby stereo Surround AND digital audio out (optical wire or HDMI) still give me full sound or will I be missing a center and woofer sound as in mentioned in "a".
c) basically what I want is Dolby Stereo surround through a digital cable. Will a 5.1 receiver allow this or will I be doomed to missing out on a center speaker and woofer, or will I be doomed to a red and white cable?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Sounds like you really like the sound of your 301's. In the interest of accomplishing what you are asking for, I think you would be best off to use 3 of your 301's for the three front speakers (hopefully you can fit one as your center - they have the benefit of being wider and less tall). Store the fourth 301 as a backup in case one of the others gets damaged.
The front 3 speakers contain much more content and it is important that they have a matched sound. Most music is in stereo, so only the front L & R will typically be playing (there are some processed 5 channel options, but most people agree that a stereo recording is best played back in stereo).
The surround play very little content, so they are not so critical. This Mordaunt Short pair of bipole speakers would make great surrounds at $170 for the pair:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/mordcarn3blk/mordaunt-short-carnival-3-bipole-speaker-black-pair/1.html#!specifications

You have a misconception about adding a subwoofer. The woofers in your Bose must face the challenge of playing the lowest notes while still acting as a midrange. Unloading those lowest notes (which the Bose woofer is not optimized for the way a sub-woofer is) to a sub-woofer allows the Bose to better focus on mid-range duties. If you can imagine, the woofer has a difficult time producing delicate midrange sounds while bass notes are forcing it to travel to the extreme limits of its capability. This is true of any midrange-woofer in a two way speaker. If you were to get something like a Dayton Audio SUB-1000, you would find that the bass will be deeper and tighter and your Bose will play cleaner in the midrange than it does now!
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1000-10-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B0063NU3AA
If you like deeper bass for your movies and don't mind the dimensions of a larger sub, go with the SUB-1200 or SUB-1500:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00669L3HS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687542&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0063NU3AA&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0319NJ70GKCN5ZBFY777
http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-SUB-1500-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B00JZTQIJ4/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1447648474&sr=1-1&keywords=sub-1500
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Ok, this is fairly complex and the beginning of my research. I'll do my best to present it.

I have 4 Bose 301's, I've come to the conclusion that my intent of tacking on a center speaker and a woofer would be insufficient and woefully inadequate compared to the other 4 bose speakers, and after some thought and some brief experience, I realize that despite surround sound, most of the important sounds come out the center speaker. I want to utilize my 301s. Further, even with regular Dolby 4 speaker surround its still pretty damn good.

1. What I want: A stereo receiver with optical audio or HDMI and 400-600 watts of power to fuel the 4 Bose 301s. If this kind of receiver is out there then my search is over.

2. I want full use of my 4 Bose 301s with out missing audio.

3. If only 5.1 receivers have a digital in, and I go with one, but only have 4 Bose 301's to hook up,
a) can I still get full Dolby surround sound or am I doomed to always miss the dedicated sound coming out of the center speaker and woofer?
b) will setting my Xbox One to plain Dolby stereo Surround AND digital audio out (optical wire or HDMI) still give me full sound or will I be missing a center and woofer sound as in mentioned in "a".
c) basically what I want is Dolby Stereo surround through a digital cable. Will a 5.1 receiver allow this or will I be doomed to missing out on a center speaker and woofer, or will I be doomed to a red and white cable?


1. 400-600 watts is an absurd amount of power that would fry these speakers!

2. That is not possible. All surround content is mixed to have appx 80% of a movie sound track coming from the center channel. I used to own 301's during my 'Bose phase.' The VCS-10 is a surprisingly adequate center channel, keep your eyes peeled and you should see a used one come up on craigslist/ebay etc.

3a. Yes!
3b. There is no 'stereo-surround', thats an oxymoron.
3c. Yes optical/TOSLINK cables carry 5.1. Again, without a center, you will lose all of that content and particularly dialogue will be almost absent.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Where to start...

1) ALL AV receivers have digital inputs and can easily drive your speakers.

2) When you say "full Dolby surround", the answer is no. That requires five or more speakers.

3) But, many times one can get a reasonable approximation of the experience with four speakers if the front two speakers image well. That's called a "phantom center channel".

4) The down side is that those 301's have an amorphous sound and don't really image well. This is good for music but the antithesis of what you need to pull off a phantom center. They will work to some extent but not to the point where you'll feel satisfied.

5) While not absolutely mandatory, a subwoofer does add a lot to your experience.
 
Last edited:
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ok, this is fairly complex and the beginning of my research. I'll do my best to present it.
Nah, not complex in the slightest. ;)

I have 4 Bose 301's, I've come to the conclusion that my intent of tacking on a center speaker and a woofer would be insufficient and woefully inadequate compared to the other 4 bose speakers,
I don't think adding a center channel would hurt you, as long as it can keep up with the higher efficiency of the Bose 301s. Do you happen to know what generation they are? It should have a roman numeral designation on the back of the speaker. I know these speakers have a bit of a cult following and are basically the second most highly regarded of the Bose speakers (second only to the 901). All that said, at the very least you would definitely benefit from a subwoofer.


and after some thought and some brief experience, I realize that despite surround sound, most of the important sounds come out the center speaker. I want to utilize my 301s. Further, even with regular Dolby 4 speaker surround its still pretty damn good.
What is the make and model of your current receiver? You are correct about the significance of the center speaker, however it's not entirely a poor setup to run a phantom center. This just means the sound that would normally be played from the center channel is mixed into your front left and right channels in a surround sound setup.

1. What I want: A stereo receiver with optical audio or HDMI and 400-600 watts of power to fuel the 4 Bose 301s. If this kind of receiver is out there then my search is over.
1. You don't need want a stereo receiver if surround sound is your goal.

2. Your speakers don't need that much power. 50-100 watts per channel is all you will need for those, they're fairly efficient IIRC.

2. I want full use of my 4 Bose 301s with out missing audio.
Then you definitely want a surround sound receiver. Most if not all modern receivers can be configured to run in phantom mode so all the sound from the center is mixed into the left and right channels, so no loss of audio information, though definition won't be as good as it potentially can be with a proper center channel.

3. If only 5.1 receivers have a digital in, and I go with one, but only have 4 Bose 301's to hook up,
a) can I still get full Dolby surround sound or am I doomed to always miss the dedicated sound coming out of the center speaker and woofer?
Nope, no rule that says all the channels of the receiver must be used in order to get all of the "sound". Again, this is where "phantom center" comes into play.

b) will setting my Xbox One to plain Dolby stereo Surround AND digital audio out (optical wire or HDMI) still give me full sound or will I be missing a center and woofer sound as in mentioned in "a".
If you set the XBOX ONE to stereo only it will downmix multichannel surround into 2 channel stereo, or 2.0. This means that all the multichannel information will be mixed into just 2 channels. Then again, this depends on the media in question. Sometimes the media will have a separate premixed 2 channel track that will be used instead of using a downmix, but the result is essentially the same. If you're going to be using a surround sound receiver I would recommend leaving the XBOX ONE set to multichannel and let the receiver handle any downmixing itself if necessary. If you limit the output to Dolby Stereo surround the receiver will only receive 2 channels. The only way to apply surround sound to 2 channel is to use a matrixed surround like Dolby Pro Logic or DTS:NEO which is a post process, not as good as true dedicated multichannel. By leaving the XBOX ONE set to multichannel a surround sound receiver will receive the whole original signal. If you're still only using the 4 Bose speakers you'll at least be able to have a 4 channel signal instead of 2 channel.

c) basically what I want is Dolby Stereo surround through a digital cable. Will a 5.1 receiver allow this or will I be doomed to missing out on a center speaker and woofer, or will I be doomed to a red and white cable?
I think if you read the above this question becomes null. You're not forced into losing the audio information that the center speaker would have played. In the receiver's settings by simply setting "center speaker" to NONE it puts the receiver into phantom mode which as mentioned before mixes the audio information that would have originally been played through the center speaker into front left & right speakers equally. No information is lost.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
3b. There is no 'stereo-surround', thats an oxymoron.
Technically correct, but the setting on the XBOX ONE is designated for a matrix surround. Remember VHS and Dolby Surround. The mixes were made specifically to be encoded by a Dolby Pro Logic processor for 4 channel "matrixed surround". The same can be done with video games.

3c. Yes optical/TOSLINK cables carry 5.1. Again, without a center, you will lose all of that content and particularly dialogue will be almost absent.
That would only be the case if he left the "center speaker" setting to Large or Small on his receiver, not if it was turned off. With it turned off you get a phantom center.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
You need a receiver with pre-pros and 2 pro-amps. I'm not sure the 301s can take that kind of power, but it's your system.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Technically correct, but the setting on the XBOX ONE is designated for a matrix surround. Remember VHS and Dolby Surround. The mixes were made specifically to be encoded by a Dolby Pro Logic processor for 4 channel "matrixed surround". The same can be done with video games.
Yes, I remember these. Back in "the day" of VHS that was the best there was. I'm not too sure they still go through the trouble to do these mixes anymore. anymore, what with VHS being a dead format and everything now is DVD with discrete sound.

In the past, I've played a DVD through an old DPL receiver (yes, I still have one. It was my first) which I had before I got a Denon 2802 and I noticed a distinct lack of surround effect on DVD's. Tapes, yes, but not on DVDs.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
OP, use three of your speakers for the front three. Connect the fourth one to one of the surround channels and place that speaker behind you. All you need then is a subwoofer.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, I remember these. Back in "the day" of VHS that was the best there was. I'm not too sure they still go through the trouble to do these mixes anymore. anymore, what with VHS being a dead format and everything now is DVD with discrete sound.

In the past, I've played a DVD through an old DPL receiver (yes, I still have one. It was my first) which I had before I got a Denon 2802 and I noticed a distinct lack of surround effect on DVD's. Tapes, yes, but not on DVDs.
Agreed, but we are talking about a video game console. They are some games that at most have matrixed surround encoding. That window is closing though.
 
T

Taelan28

Audiophyte
1. 400-600 watts is an absurd amount of power that would fry these speakers!

2. That is not possible. All surround content is mixed to have appx 80% of a movie sound track coming from the center channel. I used to own 301's during my 'Bose phase.' The VCS-10 is a surprisingly adequate center channel, keep your eyes peeled and you should see a used one come up on craigslist/ebay etc.

3a. Yes!
3b. There is no 'stereo-surround', thats an oxymoron.
3c. Yes optical/TOSLINK cables carry 5.1. Again, without a center, you will lose all of that content and particularly dialogue will be almost absent.
Thanks for the tight reply. Reading my post again I see how mixed up it was. My old receiver says "Dolby digital" or "Pro logic II" and has red and white inputs.

Ok, so on 5.1 without a center speaker I am losing content. Got it. Thats what I dont want.
 
T

Taelan28

Audiophyte
Seth I think you got it all down, you seem to understand my situation and desires despite my awful telling of them.

My old receiver had "Dolby Pro-logic II" it outputted 4 speakers and no center. It wasn't true surround sound but it was actually pretty damn good. So good that I had an advantage when playing Halo multiplayer. I want that experience with from a receiver with HDMI/Optical audio inputs.

I should get a receiver with phantom mode so the center speaker is split. I'd prefer that instead of a dinky center speaker doing more work than the other 4 speakers. Phantom mode is exactly what I want. Im assuming the woofer would go in some sort of phantom mode too, right? I'll do some looking at stores.

Im a bit strung out on sleep and coffee. I'll revisit your post several times in the coming weeks.
 
T

Taelan28

Audiophyte
Ok, 3rd post in a row. The 301s are rated for 10-150 watts. Why would filling them with 100+ watts be bad? A 400-600 watt receiver split 4 ways is 100-150 watts per speaker.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ok, so on 5.1 without a center speaker I am losing content. Got it. Thats what I dont want.
NO. I believe this has been covered already. When you disable the center speaker output it mixes the information into the left and right channels.
 
T

Taelan28

Audiophyte
Ok. When you say disable do you mean no center speaker hooked up and its automatically in phantom mode or do I have to fish around in the settings to disable it and get it in phantom mode?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Seth I think you got it all down, you seem to understand my situation and desires despite my awful telling of them.
It's fine, and you won't be missing anything.

My old receiver had "Dolby Pro-logic II" it outputted 4 speakers and no center. It wasn't true surround sound but it was actually pretty damn good. So good that I had an advantage when playing Halo multiplayer. I want that experience with from a receiver with HDMI/Optical audio inputs.


I should get a receiver with phantom mode so the center speaker is split. I'd prefer that instead of a dinky center speaker doing more work than the other 4 speakers. Phantom mode is exactly what I want. Im assuming the woofer would go in some sort of phantom mode too, right? I'll do some looking at stores.
The subwoofer will behave no differently between the center speaker being enabled or disabled. The feature to make your center a phantom is standard on all modern multichannel receivers. All that is required is to set center to "none".
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ok. When you say disable do you mean no center speaker hooked up and its automatically in phantom mode or do I have to fish around in the settings to disable it and get it in phantom mode?
It will be under speaker configuration always. If you have a subwoofer it is recommended that you set front left and right speakers to small, surround speakers to small, and center to none. If you have no subwoofer set the front left and right to large and the surrounds to small or large, your preference.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ok, 3rd post in a row. The 301s are rated for 10-150 watts. Why would filling them with 100+ watts be bad? A 400-600 watt receiver split 4 ways is 100-150 watts per speaker.
100 watts is plenty for those speakers. I won't get into the nitty gritty details of receiver wattage relevance, just know that 100 watts is adequate for those speakers.
 
T

Taelan28

Audiophyte
Ok, disable center speaker, go to speaker configuration, set it to "none" and that will put it in phantom mode as well as left and right and surround speakers set to "small."

You've been exceedingly helpful.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Ok, disable center speaker, go to speaker configuration, set it to "none" and that will put it in phantom mode as well as left and right and surround speakers set to "small."
Yes, set to Small... If you have a subwoofer. If not, set them to Large.

You've been exceedingly helpful.
No problem, enjoy! :)
 

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