More power.

[KEW]

Okay, you'll want to turn the low pass filter to its highest value (150Hz, it looks like). That way, when you manually set the crossover on the AVR to 60Hz, the roll-off from the AVR will have essentially muted the sub before it reaches the roll-off setting at the sub. You don't want them to both be engaged at the same frequency because you would not get a smooth crossover.

Yes, a more capable sub would be good. I expect that the Energy is not much more bass capable than your mains, but it is still to your advantage to off-load the deep bass from the mains.

Start a new thread in the subwoofer forum when you are ready to buy and we'll help you match one to your budget and application (HT vs Music, room size, etc)

What are you using for pads under your sub, they look pretty nice without being anything fancy (as in expensive)

 

[wgallagher]

Thanks alot for all the help.

 

[KEW]

Thanks alot for all the help.

Well let us know how it goes.
Also I edited my post to ask you about your pads while you were typing.

 

[wgallagher]

E.V.A. Anti-Vibration Pad they are very cheap
http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8

 

[PENG]

This is the way it is set up now i do want to upgrade soon though i was looking at JLView attachment 16887

The settings on that sub seem okay. You have a very nice system and we can definitively help you determine the reasons for not getting it "loud" enough. We can help more if you can provide the following information.

1) You said you ran Audyssey but we need to know the results. Go to the Audyssey auto setup screen and select check results (or something like that). Let us know what the levels of each channel, at least the L,R, C are set to.

2) You mentioned the room is big, now please tell us the dimensions, that is, length, width, ceiling height.

3) Your sitting position distance from the L,R, F208 speakers.

4) With the volume set to 75 (that is -5dB on the dB scale), what is the SPL (sound pressure level)? If you don't have a spl meter, try one of those you can download and install on you smartphone.

1) through 3) are important, 4) would be nice but if you don't have a meter, then skip it.

As KEW mentioned, given that you have the F208, if you really do listen louder than some of us you may have to add an external power amplifier. Until then, you should set the L,R,C to small and crossover to 80 Hz as soon as possible. You could also set the L,R to 60 Hz to help the subwoofer that is obviously a weak point of your "big" room.

 

[KEW]

Nice! 7/8" thick! With shipping at $4.95 (free if over $100) and $0.49 per pad, That is $9 to take care of two subs!

 

[wgallagher]

Kew yes great price i have them under every part of my system. peng i am not home right now so i can not get you the audyssey setting the room size is about 22x18 but its an open room and the height is about 10 ft. And seating is about 8ft away. i have been reading that power amps can make your system sound cleaner is that true that it might not need more power but its better power how true is that?

 

[PENG]

Kew yes great price i have them under every part of my system. peng i am not home right now so i can not get you the audyssey setting the room size is about 22x18 but its an open room and the height is about 10 ft. And seating is about 8ft away. i have been reading that power amps can make your system sound cleaner is that true that it might not need more power but its better power how true is that?

Yes that could be true in your case. It is possible that your need for more power is only for music program that has high dynamic range, such as >15 dB. In that case even at moderately loud spl, more power could get you cleaner sound because of your room size and relatively hard to drive speakers, and a weak subwoofer.

 

[KEW]

Kew yes great price i have them under every part of my system. peng i am not home right now so i can not get you the audyssey setting the room size is about 22x18 but its an open room and the height is about 10 ft. And seating is about 8ft away. i have been reading that power amps can make your system sound cleaner is that true that it might not need more power but its better power how true is that?

Peng knows this stuff better than I, so hopefully he will chime in with his opinion. However, I would feel much more comfortable advising you to buy amplifiers which offer both more and better watts (instead of getting another receiver with better watts).
Your receiver is pretty current and you would be giving up Audyssey including dynamic EQ as well as many other features of the X4100W. I kind of feel like you are stepping backwards on the feature set in order to gain better power with the NAD. Your Denon has pre-amp outputs, so you can add a separate amplification. I would consider two of these outlaw mono blocks for $760 (they may discount if you buy more than one) a good alternative:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
https://www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_2200.html

Emotiva is another popular option.

PS - I bought a box of 48 pads, thanks for the tip!

 

[markw]

In all honesty, if loudness is your main concern then you should look at more efficient speakers, say in the mid/upper nineties range.

Like I said in my first post, doubling the amplifier power will result in a barely noticeable 3 decibel increase in loudness. doubling it again, to 500 watts, will yield another three decibels which is not really that much of an increase either. Plus, that would push your speakers beyond their rated maximum.

and, these increases would only be noticed on peaks, not at your normal listening levels.

FYI.to double your apparent loudness you would need ten times the power, or 1,250 watts.

 

[wgallagher]

I think I got the loudness under control. I changed the setting around the crossovers to 60 hz and it will only let me put the sub to 80 hz that's the lowest. I think I might get an amp for cleaner power. I'm thinking something that's 300 watts at 8 omh.

 

[KEW]

Peng knows this stuff better than I, so hopefully he will chime in with his opinion. However, I would feel much more comfortable advising you to buy amplifiers which offer both more and better watts (instead of getting another receiver with better watts).
Your receiver is pretty current and you would be giving up Audyssey including dynamic EQ as well as many other features of the X4100W. I kind of feel like you are stepping backwards on the feature set in order to gain better power with the NAD. Your Denon has pre-amp outputs, so you can add a separate amplification. I would consider two of these outlaw mono blocks for $760 (they may discount if you buy more than one) a good alternative:
https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
https://www.outlawaudio.com/support/faq_2200.html

Emotiva is another popular option.

PS - I bought a box of 48 pads, thanks for the tip!

Sorry, I had a brain fart and mixed up threads. There is another one where the OP is looking at buying a NAD. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[PENG]

Kew yes great price i have them under every part of my system. peng i am not home right now so i can not get you the audyssey setting the room size is about 22x18 but its an open room and the height is about 10 ft. And seating is about 8ft away. i have been reading that power amps can make your system sound cleaner is that true that it might not need more power but its better power how true is that?

Your room is indeed considered big by THX certification categories. Since you are sitting only 8 ft away you should be fine with what you have now but adding a 300WX2 amps will give you more flexibility of your sitting position when listening in 2 channel stereo mode.

I think I got the loudness under control. I changed the setting around the crossovers to 60 hz and it will only let me put the sub to 80 hz that's the lowest. I think I might get an amp for cleaner power. I'm thinking something that's 300 watts at 8 omh.

I think you might have misunderstand the LPF for LFE terminology.
You can set the crossover points of the individual front, centre and surround speakers. You should try the settings below:

In the Crossovers menu

• Front Left and right: 60 Hz for now and 80 Hz after a subwoofer upgrade.
• Center and surround: 90 Hz

In the Bass submenu

• LFE: Select LFE, do not select LFE+Main
• LPF for LFE: Default is 120 Hz, leave it at that. This is where you might have misunderstood, the LPF, or Low Pass frequency for LFE setting is not for setting the crossover point for the subwoofer but rather, the highest frequency you want to limit the LFE channel to play so it only affects the LFE (that is, the .1 or the 5.1/7.1) channel. The subwoofer's crossover is set at the subwoofer itself. Based on the photos of the back of your subwoofer, the settings seem okay so leave that alone for now.

After that you probably should re-run Audyssey after reading the Audyssey FAQ section carefully and follow the instructions to the letter. it is not because of the changes above, but if you did it before reading the instructions carefully you might not have done it correctly.

http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/how-to

 

[wgallagher]

Awsome just changed everything it sounds more alive already thanks so much.

 

[wgallagher]

Seating is actually about 12ft just checked.

 

[wgallagher]

And my wish list amp is the McIntosh mc2301

 

[slipperybidness]

And my wish list amp is the McIntosh mc2301

????

That amp for this setup, to solve these problems????

I think you need to take a step back and ask "what are my goals" and "what is the best way to accomplish those goals"?

That 300W number is at 0.5%THD!!!

Adding tubes to your existing system is likely NOT gonna improve anything at all, and will likely be a large step back! In general, I would not recommend tubes for anything except 2 channel listening (or 2.1 is even better).

If you really want more power, especially for HT setup, then look at one of these options:

http://www.amazon.com/Crown-DriveCore-XLS1500-Power-Amplifier/dp/B003HZV2JS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447094290&sr=8-1&keywords=crown+xls
http://www.amazon.com/XLS-2500W-XOVER-LIMTR-120V/dp/B003HZV2OI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1447094290&sr=8-2&keywords=crown+xls

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at3002-two-channel-x-300-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html

http://emotiva.com/products/series/reference

 

[wgallagher]

I just love the look of that amp the crowns are at a good price how are they quality wise? I wouldnt buy the McIntosh way to much money. I looked at the emotiva not bad stats but it look like alot of people on here are not fans.

 

[PENG]

I just love the look of that amp the crowns are at a good price how are they quality wise? I wouldnt buy the McIntosh way to much money. I looked at the emotiva not bad stats but it look like alot of people on here are not fans.

The Parasound A31 or even the A23 could be a good match for your AVR and speakers.

 

[wgallagher]

Those are nice have any of you used
Yamaha P3500SP-Series power amplifier
The power is 350 wpc at 8ohm what is perfect for my fronts just not sure on quality