More power.

[wgallagher]

This might be a dumb question but i have the denon x4100w And i'm not sure if there is any add on i can use to get more power when i'm listening to music i feel i have to urn it almost all the way up to get life out of it. does anyone know anything i can get? i know you can use a pre amp with the av. thanks for the help.

 

[markw]

You do have preamp out jacks on the back but that's a pretty powerful unit.

What do you mean you "feel" you have to turn it way up to get life out of it? Volume controls and indicators are poor visualizations of how much power you're actually using.

And, no, you cannot use a preamp with it. You can,however, use external power amps but too get significant performance increase, you'll need a gigunda power amp. A 250 wpc amp will make a barely audible difference and then only on the occasional peaks.

 

[slipperybidness]

This might be a dumb question but i have the denon x4100w And i'm not sure if there is any add on i can use to get more power when i'm listening to music i feel i have to urn it almost all the way up to get life out of it. does anyone know anything i can get? i know you can use a pre amp with the av. thanks for the help.

Volume settings and numbers on the knob are arbitrary!

Does your x4100w drive the speakers to the volume that you desire, with no audible artifacts or distortion? If the answer is "yes", then you are good to go and it is your expectations on the volume knob that need to change.

 

[wgallagher]

Yes I was looking at the volume controls. I don't want to brake anything by turning it up to loud. But it never gets really loud. It sounds like i have to have it turned up to volume 70 to get full depth from the speakers. So an external power amp wont do much for me.

 

[wgallagher]

the highest i have turned it up to is about 75 and there is no distortion i just don't want to mess anything up by turning it up to high. but there are time where i would want it louder.

 

[wgallagher]

The room is a big room as well.

 

[slipperybidness]

Yes I was looking at the volume controls. I don't want to brake anything by turning it up to loud. But it never gets really loud. It sounds like i have to have it turned up to volume 70 to get full depth from the speakers. So an external power amp wont do much for me.

You need AT LEAST 2x the power to even consider going with an external amp. 4x the power would be even better.

So, turn the volume knob up to 70 and enjoy your system! It seems to us that you are complaining about a problem that doesn't exist in your system.

 

[slipperybidness]

You have misconceptions and unrealistic expectations as to what the volume knob does and what the numbers mean.

The "volume knob" would be best described as an "input attenuator".

The gain of your amp is fixed, probably at about 29dB of gain. That means that the input signal gets amplified by 29dB at the output, regardless of the input signal. The "volume knob" simply attenuates the input signal, it has nothing to do with the gain of the amplifier as that is inherent in the circuit topology. Lower setting on the knob = more attenuated signal on the input.

As long as you CAN get the volume to your desired level without clipping or distortion, then it is 100% arbitrary where the volume knob is set.

What is your input source?

Have you run the Audyssee room correction? Did Audyssee set your speakers at -6dB or more?

 

[KEW]

What speakers?

 

[wgallagher]

Revel f208 b&w cm2 s2 for center and s2 for rears. And yes I did the audysse. I'm not near the system I will have to look to see what it was set to.

 

[wgallagher]

I think my big problem is I can't get it as loud as I want.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think my big problem is I can't get it as loud as I want.

Easy. Go to the AVR manual system setup. Speaker channel levels. Increase each speaker channel level by +6.0. Now you don't have to turn up the master volume so much.

 

[wgallagher]

Ok cool any other tips

 

[KEW]

First thing I always do is to go to pure direct and see if you still have the same problem. That eliminates any possibility of a bad Audyssey setup or inadvertently messing up the sound via processing.

If you still have the same problem, then you can consider how to best address the issue because it may indeed be power. Those speakers do appear to be more demanding than most!

Information below quoted from Soundstage (bold is mine):
http://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa3-f208-loudspeaker-measurements#7m3Mts5LlkbVmQaD.97

My estimate of the F208's voltage sensitivity, measured on the tweeter axis, was 88.9dB(B)/2.83V/m, which is within experimental error of the specified 88.5dB. The speaker's plots of impedance magnitude and electrical phase angle against frequency are shown in fig.1. The impedance ranges between 4 and 7 ohms for most of the audioband, though there are dips to 3.6 ohms at 100Hz and 3.2 or 3.7 ohms at 2.9kHz, depending on whether the HF control switch is set to its maximum or minimum, respectively. The phase angle is generally low, or high only when the impedance is also high, ameliorating its effect. However, the combination of 5 ohms and –50° at 25Hz means that the F208 will need to be driven by a good 4 ohm-rated amplifier. As Erick Lichte noted, the speaker worked better from his tube amplifier's 4 ohm than from its 8 ohm output.
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa3-f208-loudspeaker-measurements#gpb5FL8TW7KU0j2u.99

The Denon AVR-X4000 is not a pushover for low impedance, but I am not versed enough to know that power is not your issue. Do you have a sub? If so, are your mains set to small? What is the crossover frequency set at?
As I read the comment above, it is apparent that setting the crossover at 60 Hz would eliminate the power/impediance/phase concerns at 25Hz from the receiver.

If you don't have a sub and use this for HT, a sub will be a fun add-on and you can order one from SVS or PSA (or others?) who will give you a full refund plus pay for return shipping if you don't like their sub. That way you can test to see if the sub eliminates the issue before you are committed to buying it. Adding a sub would be a better way to go than adding an amplifier because it would add the lower LFE for HT! Your mains are pretty close to full-range for music, but will never put out the dinosaur stomp of a good sub!

Per the review, they look like some pretty fine speakers, BTW!

 

[tyhjaarpa]

the highest i have turned it up to is about 75 and there is no distortion i just don't want to mess anything up by turning it up to high. but there are time where i would want it louder.

You are referring to 75/98 I believe? I myself use 60/98 for movies and critical listening, sometimes 70/98 with my Marantz.. 75/98 is nothing to worry about. I would start to worry if you were at 90+/98 to get your listening volume as you are getting closer to maximum. After all if you dont get any distortion and clipping then you are all fine.

How ever I would check the speaker levels like ADTG suggested. For front speakers I have set the level at zero and then matched rest with them.

Edit: If you don't have sub, I would add one. As the sub would take load from amp for lower freqs when configured correctly. This should help with volume as well.

 

[herbu]

The "volume knob" would be best described as an "input attenuator".

wgallagher,
There is an easy way to demonstrate this. Your 4100 lets you assign how the volume is displayed. One way is sort of a traditional 1-100 scale, and it seems that's what you're using. The other way is a "dB" scale. Sort of "normal" listening level is around -30dB. As you turn the volume up, the display moves closer to 0. A setting of -20dB is pretty loud. A setting of -10dB is really loud. A setting of 0, (if your system is properly calibrated), is "reference level" and is really REALLY loud, and is the level audio engineers use when creating the master recording.

If you ran Audyssey, your system should be reasonably well calibrated. Try changing you volume display to the dB scale. See what you think then. For me, -30db is normal TV/music. -20dB is for loud TV/movies and very loud music. -10dB is only for very short times when the wife is out. Your speakers are a bit more sensitive than mine, so should play a bit louder.

 

[wgallagher]

Yes I have a sub energy. I have not played with the settings on back of the speakers at all. My fronts are set to large should they not be? I should change the hz on the back of the speakers.

 

[wgallagher]

I will try that herbu thanks for the advice

 

[KEW]

Yes I have a sub energy. I have not played with the settings on back of the speakers at all. My fronts are set to large should they not be? I should change the hz on the back of the speakers.

No, your fronts should not be set to large.
That is good news because it will unload your AVR significantly (not convinced at all that power is the issue, but switching R & L to large will give you better sound quality - for your speakers, the complexity of having to play bass deep and loud while also playing higher frequencies cleanly becomes challenging - setting L & R to small will turn off your speakers at the lowest frequencies and let them concentrate on the other frequencies - those low notes push the performance capabilities of the speakers while they are a casual task for the sub).
Tell us the specific model of your Energy sub and what the controls are set at on its back panel. We will help make sure it is set up properly. Then you will want to run audyssey again, then you will need to change the L & R back to small, manually set the XO on your AVR, and you will be set.

 

[wgallagher]

This is the way it is set up now i do want to upgrade soon though i was looking at JL