Dali Rubicon for home cinema.

[shadyJ]

Wow, 34 Hz. I would stay away from the Dali subs, they are made for music, but you will miss quite a bit of deep bass in movies.

The tuning frequency of subwoofers applies more to ported subwoofers, not so much sealed subwoofers. In a ported subwoofer, the ports give a strong boost to output all the way down to their tuning point, which is the port's resonant frequency, but under that point output rolls off very fast, so you don't get much bass below tuning, as opposed to a sealed sub which rolls of gradually and can produce significant, if lesser, output below the driver's resonant frequency.

The tuning point for the XTZ sub looks to be just below 20 Hz, whereas in the PB13 and PC13, you can adjust the tuning point by sealing one of their multiple ports. The tuning points can be 20 Hz, 15 Hz, or 10 Hz. The only difference between the PC13 and PB13 is form factor. They will sound the same. The cylinder doesn't look as nice, but it's has a much smaller footprint and is lighter, so it's a bit more practical.

 

[Roger Skullestad]

I guess a bit what looks nice might be up to opinions. I dont dislike the cubic form of regular woofers - but their finish and grill is usualy what can make them look good - as a huge square or cube isnt all too exciting. The cylinder looks kinda interesting (not as much as the Paradigm Sub 2 which looks very nice with its finish and shape) - But more importantly it can easily fit many places - and it cost 200 dollars less here in Norway than the PB does.
However - for my room size I'm not sure if it will be better with the PC than with the SB

 

[Roger Skullestad]

I also wonder - I'm likely to use Spotify / Tidal and Flac files as my music-sources. Not CD's or LP's - what is the best way to feed this from the services or computer - and to the speakers?

edit: I'll make a new thread about this one

 

[Roger Skullestad]

How about the XTZ 1x12? I cant seem to find any real good reviews on this one.. I see the 'deepest passing hz' on the 3x12 is 12,5hz - but I cant find this info for the 1x12.
And how would 2x 1x12 compare to 1x SB13 and 2x SB13?

 

[shadyJ]

The 1X12 performs amount as well as you would expect, it offers 1/3 the performance of the 3X12. Not bad performance, although you do get more SPL for the money from the 3X12. Here is a comparison:

Looking at that, it seems the 1X12 does slightly better than the SB13 in deep bass (16 - 40 hz) but quite as good in bass at 50 Hz+.

 

[Roger Skullestad]

So two of those might be a good alternatives that would cost like the dali's but likely perform better?
And would they outperform a single SB13?
Strange that the chart does not show anything below 16hz?

 

[shadyJ]

The Dalis might have more output around their tuning point, but they are tuned too high for movies, so the 1X12s will inevitably do much better in deep bass. I think two of the 1X12s would outperform a SB13 pretty easily.

As for the chart not showing anything below 16 Hz, that is not strange. The standard CEA measurement set is onlt 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50, and 63, and anything above and below that is extra measurements. You can do extra measurements above and below that because the base frequencies are just 1/3 octave apart, so, by extension, below 20 hz you get 16, 12.5, and 10 Hz, and above 63 Hz you get 80, 100, 125 Hz.

 

[Roger Skullestad]

ah ok: because I've been trying to compare the XTZ to the SVS from this chart: http://www.data-bass.com/systems
and based on the table from CEA I could not find how deep the XTZ goes before it does not "pass" - but maybe this is not the same thing in the first place..

In Norway dual 1x12 cost 100 dollars less than a single SB13-Ultra - so that might be a good way to go..
the 1x12 cost 200 dollars less than the Dali's per piece actually

 

[KEW]

With XTZ, you have a good company with a strong local presence. Take advantage of that!!! They have only recently turned their interests to the US, but with products like the 3X12, they have caught our attention!
You might check out their speakers if you visit a distributor.

 

[shadyJ]

ah ok: because I've been trying to compare the XTZ to the SVS from this chart: http://www.data-bass.com/systems
and based on the table from CEA I could not find how deep the XTZ goes before it does not "pass" - but maybe this is not the same thing in the first place..

"Passing" on those charts is how much SPL can be produced under a certain threshold of distortion. The subwoofer being tested may not be able to produce enough clean SPL above the noise floor of the testing to pass at all. It looks like the XTZ subs produced a passing measurement at all the frequencies they were tested at.

Interestingly, it looks like XTZ made a working 2X12, but never mass produced it. Here is a picture of it:

One interesting thing about the XTZ "X12" sub line is they are made to be easily stackable, by the way. If you get the 1X12s and ever wanted to upgrade your subs, jut buy another couple of 1X12s and stack them. Here is a picture of some stacked 3X12s:

That is one monster sub system!

 

[Roger Skullestad]

Likely they found there to not really be a 'space' for the 2x12 in their own market. Since two 1x12 can easily be stacked there isnt really that much of a deal to go with a 2x12 unless you save some money (since you only need one vent, less cabinet material etc.) but with the 3x12 there is a larger benefit from making one cabinet - at least thats my guess to why its not been mass produced.
the only "flaw" with the XTZ is that much of their line comes in also piano gloss - except this cinema line - so they wont "fit" with the speaker finish (Dali, SVS SV and PB all comes in glossy black) but well.. I care about the looks - but performance certainly comes first. I will look a bit more on those SB13's - on a Norwegian forum some people complained that the SB13 didnt give the real heavy punch in movies.. that seem strange as it has 1000W to run the driver and a higher peak than both dali and XTZ which is only 500 continous?

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Likely they found there to not really be a 'space' for the 2x12 in their own market. Since two 1x12 can easily be stacked there isnt really that much of a deal to go with a 2x12 unless you save some money (since you only need one vent, less cabinet material etc.) but with the 3x12 there is a larger benefit from making one cabinet - at least thats my guess to why its not been mass produced.
the only "flaw" with the XTZ is that much of their line comes in also piano gloss - except this cinema line - so they wont "fit" with the speaker finish (Dali, SVS SV and PB all comes in glossy black) but well.. I care about the looks - but performance certainly comes first. I will look a bit more on those SB13's - on a Norwegian forum some people complained that the SB13 didnt give the real heavy punch in movies.. that seem strange as it has 1000W to run the driver and a higher peak than both dali and XTZ which is only 500 continous?

Room size and calibration have huge effect on performance, without knowing those its hard to say why he had problems. Also some movies have better sound tracks than other and this has big effect as well. And of course, what is heavy punch for him? Something that isn't good enough bass for him might be more than enough for another.

 

[Roger Skullestad]

It seems very hard to get to listen to the XTZ and SVS products in Norway - only one netshop sells each of them - and there is no physical shop - just a storage address. for the SVS I can understand as it comes from far away - but XTZ is from the neighbour coutry..
I will anyway go to Oslo this weekend, and visit 3 Hi-Fi shops and listen to alternatives both in Speakers, Amps, Recievers and Subwoofers - to get a taste of more than just the local shop.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

It seems very hard to get to listen to the XTZ and SVS products in Norway - only one netshop sells each of them - and there is no physical shop - just a storage address. for the SVS I can understand as it comes from far away - but XTZ is from the neighbour coutry..
I will anyway go to Oslo this weekend, and visit 3 Hi-Fi shops and listen to alternatives both in Speakers, Amps, Recievers and Subwoofers - to get a taste of more than just the local shop.

For svs you have that 45 days buy & try option, so keep that in mind. If you are not satisfied you can return them.

 

[Roger Skullestad]

XTZ usualy has 60 days - listed also in Norway - but the Norwegian outlet refuse to do that and says you have the usual 14 days regret - with paying your own return. - which suddenly is not at all tempting looking at the shipping cost in Norway ^_^
SVS also has 45 days trial in Norway - but again I have to pay 100 dollars to return it - unless I want to drive for 6 hours each direction to return it myself (in a weekday taking the day off). So for returns in Norway - its basically a huge waste of money (since you end up without a woofer if you return - but still spent 10% or so of the worth just in return-shipping) :/

 

[tyhjaarpa]

XTZ usualy has 60 days - listed also in Norway - but the Norwegian outlet refuse to do that and says you have the usual 14 days regret - with paying your own return. - which suddenly is not at all tempting looking at the shipping cost in Norway ^_^
SVS also has 45 days trial in Norway - but again I have to pay 100 dollars to return it - unless I want to drive for 6 hours each direction to return it myself (in a weekday taking the day off). So for returns in Norway - its basically a huge waste of money (since you end up without a woofer if you return - but still spent 10% or so of the worth just in return-shipping) :/

Ohh. Sounds like its even worse than here in Finland then. I would give a call / email to retailer and ask for returning cost, as they might have deals with carriers and those might aply for return shipping as well.