Amplifier VS 1000 watt Speakers

[Haggerz]

Hey guys so my situation is this, I have a sound system that currently consists of what I think is a 1970's model amplifier which is a Leak 2100 amp, and has 2X60W sony speakers connected to it and everything works absolutely fine. I like to experiment with my system to achieve better sound if possible, and Im thinking of upgrading these speakers to 2X500 watt speakers that I have seen on the internet. What im wanting to know is one, would increasing the speaker wattage improve sound quality and two, would having such high wattage blow my amplifier. it says in the manual for the amp that the distortion limited output power for 8 ohm speakers (the impediance of the speakers im looking at) is greater than 30+30 watts. can anyone clear this up for me.
Thank you to anyone who takes there time in reading this, your help is greatly appreciated

 

[Seth=L]

Ok. Slow your role ha ha.

You have a vintage classic amplifier there, if it's in good shape it is actually somewhat of a collectors item.

What you're proposing is equitable to putting a turbo and nitrous on a Classic Jaguar E-Type.

I wouldn't even recommend using the amplifier at all if I'm honest, but if you insist on continuing to use it I must implore you NOT to experiment with it. One day it will break and you won't fix it and if you don't know any better you'll discard it (bad idea, as those vintage Leak amps are still worth something even if they're broken).

I'd recommend getting a new receiver or amplifier and upgrading your speakers after that.

Now getting on to the thick of it.

Getting a set of speakers that require more power than your amplifier can provide will more than likely eventually cause damage to the amplifier depending on your listening habits. Getting speakers that "have more watts" does not inherently mean they can or will be louder.

A loudspeaker consumes wattage from the amplifier, and it will take more than the amplifier will comfortably allow if you press the volume higher. You will begin the notice the effects of this via audible distortion of your program (music, soundtrack, etc). This distortion should be your cue to immediately turn down the volume until there are no hints of distortion.

 

[Swerd]

Your amp is rated at 30 watts/channel while driving 8 ohm speakers. Considering the Leak reputation, that may be a conservative rating. Your present speakers are "rated" at 60 watts, and you want to go to speakers "rated" at 500 watts.

As Seth=L says above, speakers consume wattage produced by an amp. So the question becomes what does a watt rating mean for a speaker? Most speaker makers don't define what they mean by a power rating. It could mean minimum power for good sound, maximum power for good sound, or maximum power before they fail. Usually the marketing people want a big number rather than a small one, so it's safer to assume that their "rating" indicates what power defines an upper limit that won't destroy them.

Speakers are rated for sensitivity, which is defined as how loud are they (in decibels, dB) when driven by 1 watt with a test microphone 1 meter away. You can consider that as a minimum power rating. I usually consider anything 86 to 90 dB as sensitive enough for most home use. Lower than 86 dB is insensitive but not impossible to use, and more than 90 dB is rare for home speakers. Many manufacturers are known to exaggerate their sensitivity ratings, so beware.

To answer your question of what happens when you drive the new speakers with your old Leak amp, you need to know several things about those "500 watt" speakers.

• What is their sensitivity?
• What is their impedance? It it closer to 8 ohms or 4 ohms? This is an indication of how difficult a speaker is for an amp to drive (8 ohms is less difficult than 4).
• How loud you like to listen, and how far away you sit from your speakers when you listen? Sensitivity is usually measured at 1 meter away, but few people sit that close.

You don't need a 500 watt amp to power a "500 watt" speaker for it to sound good. As Seth=L indicated, there is also a danger of an amp clipping if it is over driven as would be the case with a 30 watt amp trying to play an insensitive speaker at loud levels. You never want clipping to happen, and people pay good money for bigger amps just to avoid that.

I hope that helps.

 

[Seth=L]

Just tell us if we went over your head, or if there's something you need explained more.

Thank you Swerd for adding that information. I thought about getting into more, but figured if I wait for his response I could gauge how to proceed, assuming that he comes back.

 

[Haggerz]

Thankyou for the very useful information guys, just one thing that bothers me and that is how ohm impediance relates to watts? Is the more watts you have the loudness? And if my amp is rated over 30+30 watts for 8 ohm speakers is that saying I can't go any less than 30 watts for an 8 ohm speaker, I'm quite new to all this as you can tell I really appreciate your time

 

[tyhjaarpa]

30 watts on your amp is the maximum power it can deliver, so when your volume control is at maximum it outputs 30 watts. And as already said speakers are usually rated with the maximum power they can handle. But what is more important is the sensitivity, if you speakers are not sensitive and your amp is low power rated you will face problems as you would drive your amp with maximum power / close to maximum and at that point it may clip / melt down. I would keep that old amp for some sensitive speakers and enjoy just as it is and get some higher power amp for your bigger speakers.

Out of curiosity what are the 500w speakers you have been looking for? How big is your room and how far the speakers are from your listening position?

edit: And it is safe to run lower watt speakers on higher watt amp IF you do not turn the amp for max power and for example use a volume maximum limit at level your speakers can handle. More delivered watts from amp means usually more volume, but there are many other factors as well. Speaker sensitivity being most important, what kind of speakers you have, how far your listening position is and what size your room is..

 

[Haggerz]

30 watts on your amp is the maximum power it can deliver, so when your volume control is at maximum it outputs 30 watts. And as already said speakers are usually rated with the maximum power they can handle. But what is more important is the sensitivity, if you speakers are not sensitive and your amp is low power rated you will face problems as you would drive your amp with maximum power / close to maximum and at that point it may clip / melt down. I would keep that old amp for some sensitive speakers and enjoy just as it is and get some higher power amp for your bigger speakers.

Out of curiosity what are the 500w speakers you have been looking for? How big is your room and how far the speakers are from your listening position?

edit: And it is safe to run lower watt speakers on higher watt amp IF you do not turn the amp for max power and for example use a volume maximum limit at level your speakers can handle. More delivered watts from amp means usually more volume, but there are many other factors as well. Speaker sensitivity being most important, what kind of speakers you have, how far your listening position is and what size your room is..

I see and maybe it was stupid of me to think of putting 1000watt speakers to my amp I just thought the more watts meant the better the sound quality, I only have a small room. I guess sound quality of speakers go off impediance and decibels. I could put 1000watt speakers to the amp as it is capable of 8 ohms but I would only get 30 watt output to the speakers which is enough and makes it pointless getting such high wattage speakers.

 

[Haggerz]

Here is a picture of my amplifier

 

[Seth=L]

1. wattage - This is what the speakers need in order to achieve any output.
2. efficiency - Depending on how efficient or inefficient a speaker is in comparison to others will determine what loudness level it will achieve at the same wattage given.
3. impedance - Rated in ohms tells us how much RESISTANCE a speaker has. The lower the impedance, the less resistance.

It is entirely possible that with your current amplifier that your 60 watt speakers could achieve a higher output level than these 1000 watt speakers when used with your Leak 2100. Without knowing the rest of the specifications for each, there's only one way to know, and that would be "experimenting".

More on wattage:

Speaker wattage is rather arbitrarily rated. Most of the time the manufacturer "guesses" what the theoretical maximum wattage a speaker can take before burning up or ripping itself apart. I find a "suitable wattage range" to be more useful than "max wattage" or "PMPO wattage" or whatever else nonsense they come up with.

More on efficiency:

For ever 3 decibel increase in output, input wattage must double. Most speaker manufacturers offer this standard specification and it will look something like this - 90dB@1 watt/meter.
This means that when the speaker is taking 1 watt from your amplifier it will achieve 90 decibels of output at a distance of 1 meter from the speaker. Obviously as you move farther from the speaker the less output you will measure. Sometimes these measurement is provided as an average, but usually it's at a single solid tone. It gives consumers an idea of what kind of output to expect from the speaker with their equipment. In order for a speaker with the aforementioned efficiency specification to achieve 121 decibels of output (extremely loud) one would need 64 watts to achieve it. On top of that 64 watts you need headroom, or instantaneous power that exceeds probably double 64 watts in order to ensure the program does not distort at that level of output. Depending on what the program is, you may need even more headroom than that.

More on resistance:

As mentioned earlier the lower the impedance, the less resistance. Speakers with lower impedances (like 4 ohms) need more current. imagine blowing down a coffee straw, you can blow pretty hard for a while before your lungs give out. Try that again, but blowing down a paper towel roll, you run out of air almost immediately because there is less resistance, meaning more current is flowing at once. The same thing happens when an amplifier not designed for high current is being called upon to deliver large current to a speaker system.

 

[Seth=L]

I see and maybe it was stupid of me to think of putting 1000watt speakers to my amp I just thought the more watts meant the better the sound quality, I only have a small room.

More watts is not typically a corollary for better sound quality. If you're in a small room, you most certainly don't need more power.

I guess sound quality of speakers go off impediance and decibels.

Nope, electrical specifications mean almost nothing when it concerns sound quality. How the speaker sounds is determined by selection of components, cabinet design, integration, room, and speaker placement.

I could put 1000watt speakers to the amp as it is capable of 8 ohms but I would only get 30 watt output to the speakers which is enough and makes it pointless getting such high wattage speakers.

You would do better to avoid a speaker that's rated for 1000 watts. I don't know of any quality speaker worth buying that would be less than 5 figures that would handle that much power.

 

[Haggerz]

Well thankyou very much to everyone I am certainly not gonna be purchasing them speakers now haha, and would you say the best way to see how good the sound quality of a speaker is if you arent able to listen to it (e.g buying off the internet) is to look at its total harmonic distortion?

 

[tyhjaarpa]

Well thankyou very much to everyone I am certainly not gonna be purchasing them speakers now haha, and would you say the best way to see how good the sound quality of a speaker is if you arent able to listen to it (e.g buying off the internet) is to look at its total harmonic distortion?

Try to find reviews, measurements and frequency graphs from desired speakers.. Looking for frequency response can give you idea how the speaker performs. Audioholics example have some good reviews of some speakers with good information. Best way to find speaker for your taste is to audition different speakers and see what you like.

 

[Haggerz]

So now I have gathered that the amount of watts in a speaker is pretty much to do with loudness, then why would you need as much as 1000w, maybe for parties? Surely the distortion would be very high when played loud

 

[Seth=L]

So now I have gathered that the amount of watts in a speaker is pretty much to do with loudness, then why would you need as much as 1000w, maybe for parties? Surely the distortion would be very high when played loud

That would depend on the system.

Unfortunately it's not like the good old days when you could go to a nice store that specialized in selling stereo equipment and listening to speakers for hours and decide what you like best for the money.

Now you almost have to resort to looking at third party measurements and reading reviews, and on top of all that trying to determine of it's unbiased or not.

 

[Haggerz]

Yeah not very many stores do that, but my preferred way would be to listen to one play, that's why I wanted to know what you would look for for sound quality as the Internet has taken over loads of things.

 

[Seth=L]

Yeah not very many stores do that, but my preferred way would be to listen to one play, that's why I wanted to know what you would look for for sound quality as the Internet has taken over loads of things.

Best advice, read, lots. As mentioned already there's a lot of useful reviews on Audioholics.

Lurking the forums won't hurt either. There's a few speaker models that are recommended frequently.

Another idea would be to start a thread that is specifically purposed for finding new speakers. In that thread outline what you want, what kind and size of room, budget, intended use (movies, music, games), and possibly types of music you would use the speakers for. Also include your current equipment.

 

[Haggerz]

Best advice, read, lots. As mentioned already there's a lot of useful reviews on Audioholics.

Lurking the forums won't hurt either. There's a few speaker models that are recommended frequently.

Another idea would be to start a thread that is specifically purposed for finding new speakers. In that thread outline what you want, what kind and size of room, budget, intended use (movies, music, games), and possibly types of music you would use the speakers for. Also include your current equipment.

yeah I shall do just that in future, one last thing, what does direct or remote mean on an amplifier for speakers?

 

[highfigh]

Ok. Slow your role ha ha.

You have a vintage classic amplifier there, if it's in good shape it is actually somewhat of a collectors item.

What you're proposing is equitable to putting a turbo and nitrous on a Classic Jaguar E-Type.

I wouldn't even recommend using the amplifier at all if I'm honest, but if you insist on continuing to use it I must implore you NOT to experiment with it. One day it will break and you won't fix it and if you don't know any better you'll discard it (bad idea, as those vintage Leak amps are still worth something even if they're broken).

I'd recommend getting a new receiver or amplifier and upgrading your speakers after that.

Now getting on to the thick of it.

Getting a set of speakers that require more power than your amplifier can provide will more than likely eventually cause damage to the amplifier depending on your listening habits. Getting speakers that "have more watts" does not inherently mean they can or will be louder.

A loudspeaker consumes wattage from the amplifier, and it will take more than the amplifier will comfortably allow if you press the volume higher. You will begin the notice the effects of this via audible distortion of your program (music, soundtrack, etc). This distortion should be your cue to immediately turn down the volume until there are no hints of distortion.

First, speakers are in no way similar to adding nitrous or a turbo- those increase the engine's output and speakers can't do that if the impedance of the 500W model is the same/similar to that of the 60W model. Second, 500W speakers don't "require" more power, they're able to dissipate the heat from higher power- there's a huge difference.

There's no such thing as a speaker that "has more watts", so there's no reason to continue using that phrase.

Also, Wattage isn't consumed, it's the calculated result from the relationship between the amp's output voltage and the speaker impedance. The sensitivity of the speakers is about the only way to tell if one model will be louder than another, NOT power handling capability.

 

[highfigh]

Thankyou for the very useful information guys, just one thing that bothers me and that is how ohm impediance relates to watts? Is the more watts you have the loudness? And if my amp is rated over 30+30 watts for 8 ohm speakers is that saying I can't go any less than 30 watts for an 8 ohm speaker, I'm quite new to all this as you can tell I really appreciate your time

Watts, Amp(eres), Ohms, Volts are just units of measurement, but they describe different things. I don't know your education level/interests in math and science, but if you like math, this should be easy enough.

Voltage is similar to water pressure- it can be there without being used- amplifier is on, input signal is present and the volume control is turned up, but no speakers are connected, wall outlet is live, but nothing is plugged into it, or it could be a battery with nothing connected to it. This means it's a form of Potential Energy and if you ever see someone refer to 'Potential difference' or 'difference in potential', this is what they mean.

Current is electron flow, kind of like water flow expressed in some quantity, like gallons per minute. In the case of current, it's a quantity of electrons/second. Just like water, if the pressure is high and there's less resistance, more water or electrons will flow.

Resistance means "resistance to current flow" but impedance takes into account the speaker's natural characteristics when the frequency changes and this is called 'impedance'.

Watts is the name for units of power and it's the number that results from calculating the relationship between the voltage and impedance. Current can be derived from these, too.

Power ratings for speakers relates to their ability to handle the heat from the voltage and current.

 

[Seth=L]

highfigh,

I put "has more watts" in quotes in order to point out that error, sorry if that was unclear.