An ultra pragmatic approach to hi-fi shopping

[niceshoes]

Having set up a few hi-fi rigs over the years, and listened to a few more, I've generally found that the diminishing returns effect on sonic performance sets in very early and rises sharply on most electronic equipment.

In particular this generalisation applies to DACs, amps, cables and cd players. Often a more expensive product is not a discernable and measurable sonic improvement over a merely adequate product. Hi-fi magazine talk about expensive amplifiers having better "timing" and "rhythm", but frankly I've never heard an amplifier with poor timing in my life, and I can't imagine a scientific explanation for an amplifier having bad rhythm.

Speakers on the other hand, tend to consistently yield discernible improvements as you spend more. Sure, there are diminishing returns, but it's not at all hard to hear the improvement right up to the ultra-premium bracket.

So I propose an ultra-pragmatic approach to hi-fi shopping: Take whatever budget you have and allocate the absolute minimum amount to merely adequate electronics. Let's say an entry-level Yamaha receiver with adequate power supply, sony CD player and some cheap low resistance cables.

Therefore if your budget is $2000, you spend about $400 on electronics and $1600 on speakers.
If your budget is $5000 you spend $400 on electronics and $4600 on speakers.

My theory is that this approach will always yield better sonic results, dollar for dollar.

Many hi-fi "experts" say you should spend between 50% and 100% of your speaker cost on an amp. And sure, that may yield some improvement. But I'm starting to think this is just the industry trying to make money on speaker peripherals (amps, dacs etc). If all you care about is getting the best sonic performance for your dollar, how can anyone argue against the ultra pragmatic approach?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

you are absolutely correct. Due to economies of scale, even lo-end modern electronics performs nearly as good as hi-end alternatives (with-in it's limits of-course)
10% electronics and 90% speakers will absolutely deliver better sound than almost any other proportion.

 

[niceshoes]

you are absolutely correct. Due to economies of scale, even lo-end modern electronics performs nearly as good as hi-end alternatives (with-in it's limits of-course)
10% electronics and 90% speakers will absolutely deliver better sound than almost any other proportion.

What's interesting is that even though I know it logically, and maybe other people might agree, very few of us are actually that pragmatic.

My amp is worth 60% of the value of my speakers, when perhaps I could have bought a cheaper amp and used the saving to buy better speakers. But we all get sucked into that look of disapproval from the hi-fi salesman when you suggest pairing new expensive speakers with a budget amp and cables.

 

[herbu]

Many hi-fi "experts" say you should spend between 50% and 100% of your speaker cost on an amp.

I've never seen that. I would go along w/ your suggestion w/ one exception. I'd get an AVR w/ the capability to expand, (ie. preouts). Then upgrade electronics as desired and convenient. Especially if you're starting w/ a budget ~$2k or more.

 

[Steve81]

I generally advocate for a more holistic view on system design, because well...it's a system. Yes, speakers (and how they interface with your room) by in large determine what you're going to hear, so they should be the primary focus. OTOH, they have to be driven by appropriate amplification to realize your goals for clean output. Sometimes that means you can get away with 10% of the cost of the speakers, other times not.

 

[niceshoes]

I generally advocate for a more holistic view on system design, because well...it's a system. Yes, speakers (and how they interface with your room) by in large determine what you're going to hear, so they should be the primary focus. OTOH, they have to be driven by appropriate amplification to realize your goals for clean output. Sometimes that means you can get away with 10% of the cost of the speakers, other times not.

Yes I agree clean output is the minimum requirement for an amp. The point is that clean output is very easy to get these days at a surprisingly low price point. A cheap yamaha AV receiver will usually do the job.

Spending money to get better than just "clean output" has an opportunity cost on your speaker options.

 

[cvcgolf]

Another reason to apply this buying rule is that receivers/amps will break down way before speakers..

 

[KEW]

Yes I agree clean output is the minimum requirement for an amp. The point is that clean output is very easy to get these days at a surprisingly low price point. A cheap yamaha AV receiver will usually do the job.

Spending money to get better than just "clean output" has an opportunity cost on your speaker options.

I think what Steve meant was their are some speakers that are very demanding for power (Magnepan being a classic example). The RBH 8T is another. If the impedance drops low (especially at a low frequency) the ability of a standard AVR to properly drive the speakers becomes suspect.

Thus you need to look at it as a system, not just buying the components. The Amplification need to be capable for the specific speaker it will drive.

 

[Steve81]

I think what Steve meant was their are some speakers that are very demanding for power (Magnepan being a classic example). The RBH 8T is another. If the impedance drops low (especially at a low frequency) the ability of a standard AVR to properly drive the speakers becomes suspect.

Another example is speakers that punch above their price, ala the EMP/RBH Impression line. You can get 5 speakers for under $1,500, add another $1,400 for a pair of their I12/e subs, and you've got a very respectable 5.2 rig for under $3,000. If you're sticking with BSA's 90/10 ratio, you're left with ~$300 for electronics, which isn't a lot to work with even for an expert deal hunter. Me, I'd want a higher end AVR or something like the Outlaw Model 5000 powering such a rig, since the EMPs can deliver quite a lot of output, but they aren't super sensitive.

 

[jinjuku]

The ratios depend on what the speaker requires of the amp. 95% of your speakers out there can be driven with any competently designed amp. It's the other 5% you have to pay strict attention to.

When I see someone pontificating about their $10K in speakers and $10K in electronics I simply ask if they want to race for pinks where I spend the same $20K but do $18 of it in speakers and $2K of it in Amp/PRE-Dac/Source combination.