Building a sub Box for dayton 18" driver & 1000Watt Inuke

ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
Sounds good, I am sold, is there another driver that you prefer to the dayton near the pricepoint?

And do I need high pass / low pass filters? I dont see them in the build you posted above below is the part list from that thread. Going to start ordering stuff tomorrow. I need to mail order everything to my buddy to bring via plane to me down here (besides the mdf), so lmk if there are some non obvious small things to make my life easier.


Driver 249.75
Binding post plate 10.90
Binding post 18.47
1" MDF 5 sheets required for a pair. You would probably need 3 sheets for a single without rearranging the cut layout. 64.00/sheet
Wood glue 20.00
PL 20.00
epoxy 5.00
socket cap screws 6.00
threaded inserts 8.00
paint 18.00
bondo 8.00
MDF screws 12.00
Rockboard 60 or 80 30.00
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Don't forget the amp, Speakon cable and terminal, and RCA to TS adapters if you don't already have them. The subsonic high pass filter just keeps the sub from bottoming out below its tuned port frequency. It's not crucial, but it won't hurt. The iNuke amp should be able to implement it.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Sounds good, I am sold, is there another driver that you prefer to the dayton near the pricepoint?

And do I need high pass / low pass filters? I dont see them in the build you posted above below is the part list from that thread. Going to start ordering stuff tomorrow. I need to mail order everything to my buddy to bring via plane to me down here (besides the mdf), so lmk if there are some non obvious small things to make my life easier.


Driver 249.75
Binding post plate 10.90
Binding post 18.47
1" MDF 5 sheets required for a pair. You would probably need 3 sheets for a single without rearranging the cut layout. 64.00/sheet
Wood glue 20.00
PL 20.00
epoxy 5.00
socket cap screws 6.00
threaded inserts 8.00
paint 18.00
bondo 8.00
MDF screws 12.00
Rockboard 60 or 80 30.00
At the price of that driver, I don't know a better one. In any case a different driver would require a complete redesign. The T/S parameters of that driver are just perfect for an optimal sounding ported box.

You won't need Eq, and I don't think the driver needs a subsonic filter. There is little content below 20 Hz.

Everyone thinks wrongly there is a lot of sonic energy below 60 Hz, when in fact when you look at the spectrum meter there is in fact very little. The myth arises because most bass reproducers are very inefficient and take gobs of power to produce little energy. Since you will not be feeding much power to this unit to produce prodigious bass, then the issue of driver damage below F3 is non existent as far as I'm concerned. The tuning frequency is not the cut off point. The cone excursion is well controlled by the alignment until 15 Hz where there is still very useful output, in fact this is the 6 db point and you don't want to cut that off with a filter.

I did not address the issue of down firing. This is fine as long as you are using larger main speakers, that can be crossed over at least as low as 60 Hz. If you do make the woofer down firing, I would not make the port down firing. There will be a lot of air flow in and out of the port and most of the bass output is from the port and not the driver. From 15 to 20 Hz almost all of the output is from the port. I'm pretty sure the air gap under the speaker would change the dynamics of the port significantly and muck the speaker up.

Crossovers are not brick wall and sub crossover attenuate at 24 db per octave, so even if you cross at 60 Hz, there is needed and useful output to 120 Hz. If you cross at 80 Hz then useful and needed output to 180 Hz.

The actual real demands for power are between 100 Hz and 2.5 KHz. With huge demands from 150 Hz to 1500 Hz. The acoustic power demands below 100 Hz are tiny in fact, compared to the band I mention. That is why a sub barely offloads a receiver at all. However that myth gets perpetuated on this forum all the time.

You do not need to buy a 1000 watt amp for this sub. 100 to 200 watts will be more than enough.

For questions about construction details and advice, I would PM Haoleb.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
You do not need to buy a 1000 watt amp for this sub. 100 to 200 watts will be more than enough.
Can you suggest a worthwhile alternative for less than $165 that would be more attractive than the 1000 watt amp? If it makes you feel better, it'll be 2x300 if he ever decides to build a second one to even out room modes.
 
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ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
I did not address the issue of down firing. This is fine as long as you are using larger main speakers, that can be crossed over at least as low as 60 Hz. If you do make the woofer down firing, I would not make the port down firing. There will be a lot of air flow in and out of the port and most of the bass output is from the port and not the driver. From 15 to 20 Hz almost all of the output is from the port. I'm pretty sure the air gap under the speaker would change the dynamics of the port significantly and muck the speaker up.

So you are saying that my B&W dm602s which i believe bottoms out at 50hz, are not big enough to be paired with a downfiring amp, right? so no downfiring for me, I am not changing my mains.

Crossovers are not brick wall and sub crossover attenuate at 24 db per octave, so even if you cross at 60 Hz, there is needed and useful output to 120 Hz. If you cross at 80 Hz then useful and needed output to 180 Hz.
This quote sounds really interesting, and yet it totally confuses me. I know what a crossover is (I think) the poiint at which the subwoofer starts to take responsibility for a frequency range. I am not sure what TSL means by useful output, is he saying that subs output above where the crossover meter is set?

Thanks Todd
 
ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
Can you suggest a worthwhile alternative for less than $165 that would be more attractive than the 1000 watt amp? If it makes you feel better, it'll be 2x300 if he ever decides to build a second one to even out room modes.
THe Inuke looks reasonable, when i think of it as 2X300.... I do have a couple questions regarding amps though....

1.)how much am I going to have to be riding both amps 320bee, and inuke during listening. I am guessing that once i dial in the inuke i can just adjust the whole system via the nad preamp?

2.)Like I have said I have b&w 602 mains. Should I be tconcerned with taking out the low frequencies before I send them to the 602's? My 602s never sound stressed at the moment but I have heard tales of taking the bass out of bookshelf mains being a good thing. I think in order to do this though I would need some sort of high pass filter inbetween things, and I dont see that happening in current setup. I have been thinking of getting the rotel 1055 for some time as it allows me to start going 5.1, and it i also has sub outs and lets you do the high pass / low pass filtering to different channels....

3.)If I were to get the rotel, I wonder could I bridge the NAD 320 BEE and use it with sub :) Googling this has not come up with any results :(

Thanks
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So you are saying that my B&W dm602s which i believe bottoms out at 50hz, are not big enough to be paired with a downfiring amp, right? so no downfiring for me, I am not changing my mains.



This quote sounds really interesting, and yet it totally confuses me. I know what a crossover is (I think) the poiint at which the subwoofer starts to take responsibility for a frequency range. I am not sure what TSL means by useful output, is he saying that subs output above where the crossover meter is set?

Thanks Todd
Can you suggest a worthwhile alternative for less than $165 that would be more attractive than the 1000 watt amp? If it makes you feel better, it'll be 2x300 if he ever decides to build a second one to even out room modes.
To be honest with you, I did not realize that amp was so cheap. I just hope it not too good to be true!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So you are saying that my B&W dm602s which i believe bottoms out at 50hz, are not big enough to be paired with a downfiring amp, right? so no downfiring for me, I am not changing my mains.



This quote sounds really interesting, and yet it totally confuses me. I know what a crossover is (I think) the poiint at which the subwoofer starts to take responsibility for a frequency range. I am not sure what TSL means by useful output, is he saying that subs output above where the crossover meter is set?

Thanks Todd
That is exactly what I'm saying. The crossover point you set is the 3 db point the crossover is down. So if you set your crossover at 60 Hz, then the sub will be 15 db down at 90 Hz, and 27 db down at 120 Hz.

The output to the mains is also 3db down at 60 Hz but rolls of 12 db per octave. So the crossover is 15 db down at 30 Hz. So if your speakers roll off below 50 Hz they will roll off 24 db per octave being ported. So below 50 Hz the combined crossover and speaker roll off will be 36 db per octave.

The object is to get the crossover to be symmetrical either side of the 3db down point of the electrical crossover. Now the 24 db low pass and the 12 db high pass was set by THX at the dawn of home AV. It was predicated on the mains being sealed, or a design that rolls off at 12 db per octave. In which case 12 + 12 = 24. However most mains are ported, and so you have a high pass slope of 36 db per octave and a low pass slope of 24 db per octave, so the crossover is not symmetrical without further equalization.

However having said all that I would set your initial crossover at 60 Hz with those speakers.
 
ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
However having said all that I would set your initial crossover at 60 Hz with those speakers.
So as of now there are no crossovers in my system, I dont know if all crossovers are created equal, can you suggest a link / piece of specific hardware to do this?

lastly, does the minidsp let you set crossovers? if so should I be thinking of getting that lil fella?
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
The MiniDSP is a nifty gadget, but I think superfluous if you're getting the Behringer amp. It already has a DSP allowing 8 bands of parametric EQ in addition to high / low / bandpass filters. The only advantage the MiniDSP would have over the amp's already included DSP would be the ability to import filters generated by Room EQ Wizard. You'd have to dial the EQ filters manually into the Behringer iNuke.

Still, adding a measurement mic to your shopping list couldn't hurt. Then you could take measurements using REW to find out what EQ curve you actually need, rather than trying to guess and play by ear. The UMIK-1 sold by MiniDSP is probably the easiest to work with. If you'd prefer dirt cheap, you could get a Dayton iMM-6, a smartphone headset to PC adapter, and a TRRS extension cable for less than half the cost of the UMIK-1, but still end up with exactly the same results. (I've got both, and they measure exactly the same from 20Hz up.) You could probably also use a 3.5mm TRS -> 1/4" TS splitter cable to connect your PC sound card to the amp to play measurement sweeps, and a plain common 3.5mm TRS cable (if you don't already have one) to calibrate your sound card in REW.
 
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