Coffee snob fooled by blind taste test.

lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Funny, but if they only did a sip test that isn't sufficient. There is a reason Pepsi wins on a sip test and loses on a full can. That said coffee is disgusting to my palate.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Sip or full cup, well that would be reciprocal to the claims being made. If the coffee drinker said that they could tell right off the bat / snap of the fingers / a quick sip then the testing is sound.

Coffee or brewing method isn't the DUT. It's the drinker.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I may regret this, but, as a coffee drinker, I find it takes a cup, enjoyed leisurely over a few minutes, as the only real way I can make up my mind about the quality (or lack thereof) of that intoxicating beverage. A sip doesn't cut it.

And, I would afford that privilege to anyone testing an audio component, or a cable, for that matter.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Sorry to poop on everyone's parade, but there are (at least) two additional methods of brewing coffee and both involve pressure, which none of methods above used - in fact - they are all very similar.
I refer to Espresso and Moka pot, and both are so drastically different that I don't care who's the taster - they would know the difference.
 
Schurkey

Schurkey

Audioholic Intern
Cowboy Coffee:

Boil a pot of water--big enough for everyone.

Throw a handful of coffee grounds into boiling water.

When it smells like coffee, take it off the boil, let the grounds settle. Pour into tin cups. Pour slow, leave the wet grounds in the pot.

MMMMmmmmm. Just like Great-great-Granddad made. Coffee isn't good unless you have to chew it a little.
 
Scaleguy

Scaleguy

Enthusiast
That's funny. I like the smell of coffee but haven't ever found a type that I can drink without loading it up with cream, chocolate, and sugar.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I enjoy coffee now that I am down to 1 - 2 cups / week. I stopped drinking daily about 2 years ago. Friday's is McD's with my daughter for breakfast.

Best cup of coffee around :D
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I looked at that coffee video last night and was all annoyed at it. Was it real, or were those "actors"? They talked pretentious nonsense. I especially disliked that bleached blonde, but others were almost as foolish.

It may have been "blind" but it wasn't a good test at all. It assumed people would taste differences, and asked them what they preferred. So it started with a flawed idea.

Next, as BSA already pointed out, those various brewing methods were so similar that I don't understand what could be different. They were all variations of drip filtering, except the French Press pot. The example of electric drip brewing (I believe it was Mr. Coffee brand) probably was one of those cheap ones that don't heat the water hot enough to brew properly. All the other methods rely on boiling water separately in a kettle, brewing, and filtering out all (paper filters) or most (french press) of the grounds.

What is far more important is the type of coffee, followed by the temperature of the water and how well and how long the grounds are exposed to hot water. The high pressure methods that BSA mentioned result in noticeably different tasting coffee because water boiled under high pressure, actually gets hotter than 212°.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I agree about McD's coffee, surprisingly good and reasonably priced.

IMHO real coffee drinkers drink their coffee black.
It seems like a waste of money to buy expensive beans and a grinder, along with a specific brewing vessel/process.
Then dump sugar and milk into it.:D I understand personal taste comes into account, it's just not the way pro tasters drink coffee:) EDIT: I don't mean to imply I'm a pro coffee taster.

Below is an interesting article about professional coffee tasting methodology.

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2010/11/coffee-cupping-how-professionals-taste-coffee.html
The specific, ritualized way that industry professionals taste, analyze and grade different beans for quality. Ever wonder what they're looking for, exactly, or what motions they go through to find it? Kind of like the wine tasting for coffee beans, cupping is a methodical process with universally recognized parameters.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Speaking of coffee… I'm home today, taking a day off, and enjoying a 2nd cup of some good home made coffee :).

At work, we recently got a new, and elaborate, coffee machine. It's called a Virtu coffee maker http://www.sundun.com/virtu-single-cup-brewer.asp. I've never seen anything like it before, very 21st century. Any one else used one of these?

Unfortunately it's complex and seems to need daily maintenance. And it's only as good as the coffee they load into it. The vendor uses Caribou coffee, which I think is mediocre and roasted too dark.

We previously had a Flavia machine, http://us.myflavia.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3442362, which is similar to a K-cup machine, but a lot more reliable. It was OK.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
As a child sometime in the fifties, but before I was in first grade, I can remember going to the A&P with my parents and being able to smell the coffee being ground even at the back of the store. To me the aroma was intoxicating. I could be wrong but I don't thin back then they were piping the smells throughout the store. Several years ago, back when the stores around me would still grind beans including the A&P, I had to be up close to get that smell and it didn't seem quite so intoxicating.

Again, as a child and growing up on a farm, the first thing we did after waking up, was to set up the roadside stand with vegetables which typically involved picking the peppers, lettuce, beans, etc. after about an hour or so, my mother would go to make breakfast. They still delivered milk back then with the layer of cream at the top that she would skim off to later make whipped cream, and the butter which we bought from a local dairy farmer who churned her own butter. All good, but being outside you knew breakfast was just about done because you could smell the coffee being made outside. She used one of those aluminum stove top percolators with the basket filter.

When I got my own place, well actually a place I shared with others during college, I was generally disappointed with both the smell and flavor of coffee. Even when I would return home for vacation or the summer, it wasn't the same. That is until one day I was walking through Brooklyn Heights and caught that smell on the streets. Looking around I found a coffee shop up on the second floor. Wow, all Hesse different type of coffee and none of them were Chock Full of Nuts. So for something like a buck I had the guy make me a cup and he used something like a ChemX. It was killer. He had on display assorted vintage coffee makers but his goto maker was the ChemX. I was sold and bought a setup and once again I had good coffee with the better stuff coming from stuff he would grind for me. But you had to be diligent about the water temperature.

So, still in college, I one day went to a flea market and saw someone selling a used vacuum coffee maker. Five bucks. You'd fill the bottom up with water and as it came to a boil, the water would go to the upper bowl where you'd add your coffee, swirl, and as the pot cooled, the coffee would get sucked back down through a filter into the lower bowl. It replaced my ChemX because the consistency was better IMO. However that broke one day and I was back to the ChemX.

With marriage and kids came a slew of drip makers. Back then Krups was pretty good but no longer having the 'luxery' of spending money on upscale beans, it was back to canned coffee. It generally was disappointing. My current goto maker is a Mellita drip, made by Hamilton Beach, that has a stainless thermal carafe. It does a respectable job, the coffee isn't heated so it doesn't get nasty, but I don't think I'm getting the optimum temperature. I've got a thermometer on order to check on that.

I've got two French presses, one a commercial quality with thick glass wall and a Frieling with a stainless thermal carafe that my son gave me for Christmas. To grind beans I've got a nice Breville burr grinder and a digital scale for weighing. I've been experimenting for a while with varieties and various roaster. Maybe it's me but I tend to think there too much over roasting going on although there is a Hawaiian one that's pretty good. Haven't been sold on the Jamaican yet but I do tend to really like th Colombian and Nicaraguan varieties. Will probably try some African ones and try to stay to the upper tiers wrt grading.

At some point I think I'll also pick up another glass vacuum maker. Seems there used to be an electric stainless steel one but can only find those on the used market.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Cool! Someone else gets off on good coffee :).

Nothing beats fresh roasted coffee. By fresh, I mean no more than 3-4 weeks after roasting. Roasting is controlled partial oxidation, and after roasting, this chemical reaction continues slowly until the coffee looses that wonderful fresh aroma. Whole beans stay fresh longer than ground coffee, as you've noticed. Virtually everything sold in most grocery stores is older than that. From what you described, I think you get all that.

Different varieties of coffee from different parts of the world make a huge difference. I personally like coffees from Central American (Guatemala, Costa Rica & Panama) and East African (Ethiopia & Kenya). At times, I've had very good Colombian. I find Jamaican (Blue Mtn.) and Hawaiian (Kona) are over-rated and overpriced. Try all you can, as it seems everyone likes something different.

The roast level also makes a big difference. I personally don't like dark roast as it tastes burnt (like caramelized sugars) and hides the 'varietal' taste. I stay away from Starbucks, aka Charbucks. Other people crave dark roast.

ChemX, along with other Melita-type cone filter makers, now called 'pour over coffee' by the hipsters, is probably the simplest way to make coffee. I've done that most of my adult life. The key issues I've learned through experience are:
  • The amount of coffee and water are important for obvious reasons.
  • Boil the water, let it sit briefly until the temperature is just off the boil, about 195-205°F. This is said to be the optimum temperature to brew coffee. It also evaporates all the chlorine in the water. Charcoal filters (like Britta) also remove chlorine, but briefly boiled water is easier.
  • Pour just enough water in the filter to wet the grounds. Let it sit a few minutes. Fresh coffee has more oils present and the grounds clump together, resisting wetting. Stirring might help. After 2-4 minutes, add the rest of the water. Some cone filters (Clever Coffee Dripper) come with a valve at the bottom that lets you fill the cone and keep the grounds immersed in hot water. You open it to drip after 2-4 minutes. You can vary the brew time like a French press.
Most electric drip makers achieve temperatures roughly 180-190°. Believe it or not, this makes coffee taste more bitter. I know of two electric makers that do get to the right temperature, Technivorm and Bonavita. They aren't cheap because they have sturdy 1400 watt heaters.

I've never tried a vacuum coffee maker, but they are said to work well. They are fragile and somewhat expensive, but cost less than a good electric drip maker.

French press - I don't prefer them because they don't seem to filter out the fine grounds as well as filter drip. This probably works better with a coarse grind and my cheap blade grinder only does fine grind.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Then dump sugar and milk into it.:D
You must have sh!t watching me put 9 sugars into a coffee. :D

... or actually I 'said' I put 9 sugars into it because I actually 'did' put 9 sugars into it. Large Kimodo Dragon out of a French press at Starbucks. That was like the strongest coffee I've ever had in my life.

The nice thing about Richard's light roast is that I can just drink the coffee black because it's lighter flavor doesn't need stuff to make it palatable but caffeine content is up there. Two cups of that got me wound up pretty good.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
You must have sh!t watching me put 9 sugars into a coffee. :D

... or actually I 'said' I put 9 sugars into it because I actually 'did' put 9 sugars into it. Large Kimodo Dragon out of a French press at Starbucks. That was like the strongest coffee I've ever had in my life.

The nice thing about Richard's light roast is that I can just drink the coffee black because it's lighter flavor doesn't need stuff to make it palatable but caffeine content is up there. Two cups of that got me wound up pretty good.
I like sugar in my coffee too, but no milk or cream. I used to use 2 spoons sugar, now 1 of splenda. My wife pours in a ton of milk, and then complains the coffee is weak :eek:.

Normal roast coffee has more caffeine in it. The blacker the bean, the less caffeine. Roasting burns up the caffeine.

Starbucks is to coffee like Bose is to speakers. High prices, advertising, and buzz on the street can't make up for poor quality.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Mildly disappointed that I am one very few people here, who appreciate fine and strong flavor profile of ristretto.
But the rest - I fully agree with Swerd. Freshly roasted coffee (3-4 week), ground just before brew and coffee consumed right after brewing.
I had made some very tasty coffee cups with stove top Moka pot - it's very cheap to try - just DON'T get the aluminum, but stainless steel one
 
Schurkey

Schurkey

Audioholic Intern
My coffee maker is a Made-In-USA Mr. Coffee drippity-drip that we got as a wedding present twenty-six years ago. Someday, it's going to die, and I have no idea what I'll do then. I friggin' refuse to buy a Communist coffee maker, even though I did enjoy a few batches of Vietnamese-style coffee when I read about it a year or two ago.

The ground beans sit on the counter of my kitchen longer than four weeks. Holy crap, I'd say my current bag of coffee is six months old or more. Been traveling a lot lately.

Dear Old Dad drinks Folger's instant with a blort of the palm-oil-plus-sugar-and-flavoring "International Delight". Yuck.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
For things like my birthday, Christmas, and Father's Day, I usually get coffee from my oldest, Swerd. He looks for beans from roasters that have been reviewed well. Then after I get them I send him my personal reviews and we go from there. I did get 4oz. of Kopi Luak but thought it was very overrated. My ex-daughter in law works at Targét where at one time she oversaw their in-house food brands (Archer) and she'd send me beans. Targét would bid on the beans looking to get the first or second tier. Being that she oversaw that too, and would always get freebie evaluation samples (the perks of management) I'd get them since she wasn't a coffe drinker. There was some mighty good stuff there. So, in addition to what you said about roasting, I'd say the quality of the bean plays a factor. I will be trying some of the countries you suggested while looking for roasters closer to where I live. Just like growing up on a farm, freshness matter. I did try some Vietnamese coffee but it was horrendous enough to just write it off. Pity seeing as their women are pretty hot. Well the hot ones anyways.

 
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