Some data on Monitor Audio BX5s... thoughts?

M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
As my first foray into higher-end audio, I have been thinking about setting up a 2.0 system with Monitor Audio BX5 tower speakers. This would be for TV, movies, and some music.

I have only heard good things about Monitor Audio and the (few) reviews that I can find of the BX5s are overwhelmingly positive, but contain almost no quantifiable data. Then I stumbled on this review in Polish:

[oops, looks like I'm not allowed to post links yet... you can find the review if you google for "Mały ale wariat BX5"]

It looks like they have a big (+10dB) peak right around 100Hz. I wonder if you guys have any thoughts about how this might sound? I'm worried because I intend to use them for TV and movies, and male speech starts at around 100Hz.

The review is hard for me to understand (Google Translate) but it seems to imply that the bass might be bloated and somewhat out of phase...? Does anybody have a different take on this?

Thanks in advance. I have been reading the Audioholics reviews of speakers for a while now and am excited to join the community!
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai


It looks like they have a big (+10dB) peak right around 100Hz. I wonder if you guys have any thoughts about how this might sound?
I woudn’t let that deter me. I’m sure the auto EQ function in most modern AVRs these days will take care of that. Besides, dialog comes from the center channel speaker anyway...


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I would mainly focus on the FR from 200Hz-10kHz and make sure it's no more than +3dB/-3dB. And then audition the speakers to make sure they sound great.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
It looks like they have a big (+10dB) peak right around 100Hz. I wonder if you guys have any thoughts about how this might sound? I'm worried because I intend to use them for TV and movies, and male speech starts at around 100Hz.
There may be other factors that caused that bump and not just the speakers.

Would need to see a chart and also how they were measured, what type room
and if the ones who measured them have much experience.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic

I woudn’t let that deter me. I’m sure the auto EQ function in most modern AVRs these days will take care of that. Besides, dialog comes from the center channel speaker anyway...
Thanks, I didn't realize that these automatic calibration features were that sophisticated now.

The simplicity of a 2.0 setup appeals to me so I'd like to avoid having a center channel. Do you think these speaker companies tune their towers so they are sub-optimal for speech because they assume people will get center channels?
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
There may be other factors that caused that bump and not just the speakers.

Would need to see a chart and also how they were measured, what type room
and if the ones who measured them have much experience.
Good points. Since the review and site are in Polish it's hard for me to get a good feel for this stuff. I did look at some of their other speaker reviews and they don't show this 100Hz spike but I know it might have been different people testing, etc.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
I would mainly focus on the FR from 200Hz-10kHz and make sure it's no more than +3dB/-3dB. And then audition the speakers to make sure they sound great.
I would like nothing more than to audition these but unfortunately they are very hard to find where I live in the US. In fact they are pretty hard to buy, even if you're buying online. Some stores around me have more expensive Monitor Audio speakers like the Silver 6s but they are over my budget.

Right now I have a sound bar with a subwoofer and it sounds good above 200Hz but has problems below 200Hz which I would like to address. I feel like the subwoofer has some significant group delay and there's a suckout from ~100Hz to ~150Hz. I find this really annoying when I'm listening to certain male voices.

I'm happy to get rid of the subwoofer and give up some lower-end frequency response if it means tighter and more even bass.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Good points. Since the review and site are in Polish it's hard for me to get a good feel for this stuff. I did look at some of their other speaker reviews and they don't show this 100Hz spike but I know it might have been different people testing, etc.
I have yet to find a big spike like that on any Monitor Audio speaker.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
I have yet to find a big spike like that on any Monitor Audio speaker.
That's reassuring. Can you speak to the manfuacturer or this particular model any more, since it sounds like you have some experience with them?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am mostly concerned with having tight, "even" bass. That is to say, I would like everything to be as coherent as possible with as flat of a response as possible. Sounds obvious but I'm sure some speakers do a better job of this than others, even for the same price range ($500-$700 per pair).
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I have not heard any bad rep regarding monitor audio, in fact my limited experience is only with tiny bookshelves, i forgot the model number - the sounded just ok to me.
In your price range I'd seriously consider ascend cmt 340se
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I would be very careful of that speaker, and not purchase without an audition. My strong hunch is that it is in the very nasty category.

The review and measurements were instructive.

I would put that speaker in the "too clever" by half category.

I think it is aimed at the pop thump market and also plays the numbers game in a cynical way.

This speaker is unusual in that it is a 2.5 way ported, with the speakers in different enclosures. The speakers have the same T/L parameters, but the fill driver does not have a phase plug as it does not need one.

Now the enclosures of the two drivers differ in volume by 100% and are tuned 1/3 octave apart. The ports are the same dimension, but one chamber has a forward facing port and the other a rear facing port.

Now, in vented speaker there is only one alignment that really works optimally.

My suspicion is that one chamber is two big and the other too small.

This has been done I suspect to claim -3db to 36 Hz with small drivers.

I would bet that the fill (BSC) driver is tuned in an extended bass alignment. These have poor transient response and droop early.

So the bass/mid enclosure is too small to lift the droop. This might be attractive on some pop music but in other genres will be awful.

I suspect phase is a mess. In the area of maximum reinforcement of the drivers the cones and ports are in phase with the drivers, but a cycle behind.

So between the cones and the ports there is a lot of room for phase additions and cancellations.

Designing a speaker like this is very difficult. My TLs are dual, but the two lines use different drivers, and tuning is half and octave apart, and the phase angles between lines and ports only 90 degrees and not 360. Even then, this was a very difficult design.

The next issue is that by my calculation the crossover for the fill driver is too low.

I would bet that nasty droop in the 250 to 650 Hz range is real. This will make the speaker thin, in a vital part of the midrange. This will be disguised to the casual listener by the 100 Hz thump, which I also strongly suspect is real. It is quite possible that the crossover to the fill driver was made too low on purpose to help disguise the 100 Hz peak. That will fool a lot, but not experienced listeners.

The next issue is generic to Monitor audio. This is not a huge problem, but when I auditioning speakers from this stable I'm aware of it.

They use very rigid ceramic coated, magnesium alloy cones.

Now rigidity in the pass band has the advantage of excellent dispersion.

The downside of rigid cones is that they eventually do break up, and when they do you get a massive break up mode.

This break up mode is hard to deal with. I use similar cones from SEAS. This break up is a big problem. When I have auditioned MA speakers, I can hear some residual of the break up mode. You can see the residual of the break up mode in the frequency response. It is largely suppressed, but it is still visible, peaking at around 6 to 7 KHz, just were you would expect from a rigid driver this size.

Another issue is that the impedance has not been quoted honestly. I agree with the reviewer, that this speaker is a 3.5 ohm speaker and not an 8 ohm one. The impedance is low where most of the power response is.

One last point, contrary to what is expressed here, auto Eq programs do not put speakers right.

Speaker response aberrations are always associated with other problems such as retained energy and phase errors. Frequency response correction can sometimes make an improvement, but will never make a bad speaker a good one.

You have to be careful with speakers, as there are far more bad speakers than good ones, with a boat load of dreadful speakers in abundance.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
That's reassuring. Can you speak to the manfuacturer or this particular model any more, since it sounds like you have some experience with them?
Sounds obvious but I'm sure some speakers do a better job of this than others, even for the same price range ($500-$700 per pair).
My experience has been with the MA Radius and some with the Silver 6.
However, there has been no real bad rep with MA

Need to remember that room modes can effect bass response below 200 hz

I like the JBL Studio 530 - the horn is not aggressive or blaring to me - and
they have been known to be chosen over more expensive speakers.
http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Studio-530-5-25-Inch-Bookshelf/dp/B00622STI0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427588637&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+studio+530

Also, look at NHT Classic Series - and as stated the Ascend speakers.

Best for you to test out speakers in your home - buy and audition with a
30 day return policy - as no one can guarantee anything.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
I would be very careful of that speaker, and not purchase without an audition. My strong hunch is that it is in the very nasty category.
...
Thank you for the detailed reply. Sorry if my reply contains incorrect technical terms. I have only recently become interested in speakers and have only learned about them via some internet pages/sites.

I have also been wondering how the opposite-facing ports would sound. My understanding of vented speakers is that they are pretty coherent until they get near the port tuning frequency. So it would make sense to me to have a sealed, mid-range driver with a (rear?) port but also a bandpass filter. So it would have the efficiency of a ported speaker but not much coming out of the port to muddle the sound. But the BX5 is advertised as a 2.5 way speaker so I assume there is no such filter, and the output from the back is probably undesirable. The speakers apparently come with port bungs for the rear ports which might be a concession to sorting out coherency?

Would you have any recommendations for something to consider? I was targeting $500-$700 but looking at the Fry's ad this week got me curious about the Onkyo SKF-4800s which are on sale for only $150 per pair:

http://www.frys.com/product/7857219?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I listened to them a couple months ago in a store and they sounded pretty good to me, but it wasn't a good listening environment and I was only there for a few minutes. But they seem simple enough that maybe there isn't too much they could have messed up.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
...
I like the JBL Studio 530 - the horn is not aggressive or blaring to me - and
they have been known to be chosen over more expensive speakers.
...
Thank you for the recommendations. I notice that some of you are recommending bookshelf speakers. (Although these JBLs and the Ascends are pretty enormous for bookshelf speakers.)

Right now I'm in love with the idea of tower speakers because it seems like for not-that-much extra money, they have all the same stuff as bookshelf speakers but don't require speaker stands and they also provide deeper bass. Is this idea misguided?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I was targeting $500-$700 but looking at the Fry's ad this week got me curious about the Onkyo SKF-4800s which are on sale for only $150 per pair:

Right now I'm in love with the idea of tower speakers because it seems like for not-that-much extra money, they have all the same stuff as bookshelf speakers but don't require speaker stands and they also provide deeper bass. Is this idea misguided?
Yes and No

However, I would skip them Onkyo towers.

4 to look at for under $700

Wharfedale Diamond
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-15485-wharfedale-diamond-104-tower-speakers-pr.aspx

Boston M250 - sold each - real nice price
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/bosm250ba/boston-acoustics-m250-2.5-way-floorstanding-speaker-each-black/1.html

Philharmon AA (Pioneer modded) towers - a good deal
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

Sony Core tower - sold each - on sale
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-dual-5-3-way-floorstanding-speaker-each-black/5926456.p?id=1219171880508&skuId=5926456

Now, did I say skip the Onkyo towers?
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Ascend cmt 340se have optional stands which makes them appear like towers
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
If you don't mind closeouts, I'm very fond of the pre-Maxxsonics MB Quarts from Germany. There's a nice pair of new old stock towers on eBay here: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=231391369835&alt=web

I haven't heard this model -- but all I have heard are transparent. If I were in the market for towers I'd give these serious consideration.

Here's a graph:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...anding-speakers-under-1500.74328/#post-812219

They'd benefit from a sub though. Then again, a sub would be a worthwhile consideration for any towers you choose. It's likely that the best placement within your room for towers won't be the best location for bass response, anyway. Having a separate sub frees you to do the subwoofer crawl and place your bass where the response at your listening position will be more linear.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
We're talking about $350 per speaker here, not $3500 per speaker. There will be many compromises.

So no $700/pair speakers are going to measure awesome in most aspects and sound as good subjectively as $3K/pair speakers.

I think as long as the actual price is 30-40% below MSRP, the MA speakers will probably sound as good as any other speakers for the same low prices.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
Make an offer of $599 - so, you can cover shipping cost and stay in budget.
Thanks for the advice and recommendations. I am just shopping right now for a purchase that I'll likely make later this year, so I'm not really ready to jump on an eBay deal, although it does look good.

Looking into Ascend some more, I realize that a friend of mine just ordered their new tower speakers. So I can go listen to those. They're outside of my budget but maybe it will give me an idea of how their bookshelf speakers sound. The measurements on the CBM-170 look impressive and they get good reviews. I might just get those. I appreciate the information and recommendations!
 
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