Banning the term climate change won’t stop the reality

S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Well maybe a Left Winger can answer an earlier posters question?

Have the scientists ever figured out why the planet was warmer a 1000 years ago than it is now?
Has this fact ever been used in determining whats causing global warming other than mankind? I don't think it has.
The trouble with this is why are you asking 'left-wingers' about historical climatic conditions? Why wouldn't you ask an actual, you know, climate scientist? I think you would if you were genuinely interested in the answer, but the way you put the question makes me think you are only interested scoring points in a political debate. It's a shame that this body of scientific knowledge is being so heavily politicized, but it is, and it isn't primarily leftists doing it.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
So, if I google something like climate change, global warming, the majority of the hits will come from right leaning websites? Same for major newspapers and tv news outlets? The UN?
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
"I'll see you down in Arizona Bay....learn to swim...learn to swim"
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
The trouble with this is why are you asking 'left-wingers' about historical climatic conditions? Why wouldn't you ask an actual, you know, climate scientist? I think you would if you were genuinely interested in the answer, but the way you put the question makes me think you are only interested scoring points in a political debate. It's a shame that this body of scientific knowledge is being so heavily politicized, but it is, and it isn't primarily leftists doing it.
If you would read the post of Gene's I was replying to, he made mention to "Right Wingers"
He has mentioned politics in virtually all of his posts. I was simply replying in-kind.
It's curious that you didn't call out any of his post when he continuously mentioned politics or "Right Wingers"
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I want to add one more thing here.. The fact that we can both find scientific studies that support/refrute global warming is a concrete and clear indication that scientists have not approached this problem hollistically. From a global warming perspective, I think the alarm bells have been rung prematurely. From a poisoning of our environment including, air, land, and sea, we didn't ring the alarm bells fast enough.


Gene,

Have you considered that global deforestation has a two prong affect: Increasing CO2 levels and reducing the re-absorption of CO2? This whole concept of Carbon credits is such a false economy and does nothing, absolutely NOTHING to deter global deforestation. If you think I'm nuts, take a look at the "cradle of life" between the Tigris/Euphrates rivers in and around Iraq. Once a lush paradise, now a freaken desert and its NOT coming back.


If you truly want to fight a cause.. fight global deforestation. Global deforestation has the largest impact on our environment.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I want to add one more thing here.. The fact that we can both find scientific studies that support/refrute global warming is a concrete and clear indication that scientists have not approached this problem hollistically. From a global warming perspective, I think the alarm bells have been rung prematurely. From a poisoning of our environment including, air, land, and sea, we didn't ring the alarm bells fast enough.


Gene,

Have you considered that global deforestation has a two prong affect: Increasing CO2 levels and reducing the re-absorption of CO2? This whole concept of Carbon credits is such a false economy and does nothing, absolutely NOTHING to deter global deforestation. If you think I'm nuts, take a look at the "cradle of life" between the Tigris/Euphrates rivers in and around Iraq. Once a lush paradise, now a freaken desert and its NOT coming back.


If you truly want to fight a cause.. fight global deforestation. Global deforestation has the largest impact on our environment.
And the circle of confusion continues with fake science perptuated by faux news pundents and big oil creating doubt against real science.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley/
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
And the circle of confusion continues with fake science perptuated by faux news pundents and big oil creating doubt against real science.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/06/04/the-1970s-ice-age-myth-and-time-magazine-covers-by-david-kirtley/
You're not getting it are you? We can volley links at each other all day long. Are you that nieve to think that there is no political gain in the pro global warming camp? Have the scientists who studied global warming take into account other factors than CO2 levels? If you blindly believe that the scientists have considered all, than I'm out of this arguement. I know for a fact that they have NOT considered everything.


One more point....In most cases scientists present the facts as they see it but that message is often filtered by the management food chain to meet management's agenda. Its like this everywhere unfortunately.
 
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gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I want to add one more thing here.. The fact that we can both find scientific studies that support/refrute global warming is a concrete and clear indication that scientists have not approached this problem hollistically. From a global warming perspective, I think the alarm bells have been rung prematurely. From a poisoning of our environment including, air, land, and sea, we didn't ring the alarm bells fast enough.


Gene,

Have you considered that global deforestation has a two prong affect: Increasing CO2 levels and reducing the re-absorption of CO2? This whole concept of Carbon credits is such a false economy and does nothing, absolutely NOTHING to deter global deforestation. If you think I'm nuts, take a look at the "cradle of life" between the Tigris/Euphrates rivers in and around Iraq. Once a lush paradise, now a freaken desert and its NOT coming back.


If you truly want to fight a cause.. fight global deforestation. Global deforestation has the largest impact on our environment.
There's one big difference. Yours are not scientific studies. The links your sending are propaganda perptuated by bloggers not scientists, political commentators not sceintists, people contracted by big oil to write junk science, not scientists. I show you studies by NASA and other peer reviewed bodies by comparison.

Most of you counters against Manmade Climate change are nothing more than Fox News pundents talking points,

Your Global Cooling nonsense is a myth. There was never a scientific consensus on that but it's a great story to perpetuate more confusion.

And yes Deforestation is causing more CO2 rise, yet another Manmade cause of climate change. I'm very aware of deforestation issues as that is the focus of my brother's lifelong work.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
There's one big difference. Yours are not scientific studies. The links your sending are propaganda perptuated by bloggers not scientists, political commentators not sceintists, people contracted by big oil to write junk science, not scientists. I show you studies by NASA and other peer reviewed bodies by comparison.

Most of you counters against Manmade Climate change are nothing more than Fox News pundents talking points,

Your Global Cooling nonsense is a myth. There was never a scientific consensus on that but it's a great story to perpetuate more confusion.

And yes Deforestation is causing more CO2 rise, yet another Manmade cause of climate change. I'm very aware of deforestation issues as that is the focus of my brother's lifelong work.
Some of my counters maybe but not all. NASA and such don't have political agendas that cloud the complete truth for funding purposes?


http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast20oct_1/
 
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C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I recall reading some time back (sorry, no link) that Brazil had suggested if the global community, by which I take it as the US, was so concerned about the deforestation of the Amazon, they would be open to financial compensation in return.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
WHY Are There Manmade Climate Change Deniers?

This may interest you.
http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/

It deals with the influential, powerful people who probably believe in the truth, but because it isn't economically viable to their world, they introduce doubt.

A look at an internal GOP strategy piece by Frank Luntz from years ago clearly illustrates the agenda of the deniers.

http://www.motherjones.com/files/LuntzResearch_environment.pdf

Do some research of the most prominent scientist/climate change deniers, and follow the money trail.

Steven E. Koomin, climate change denier, is ex-chief of science at BP; Judith Curry, climate change denier, receives most of her funding from fossil fuel industries; Craig Loehle, climate change denier, is funded by the Heartland Institute, which denies climate change and is funded by fossil fuel corporations, and for years denied tobacco as being harmful while being funded by the tobacco companies; and Richard Linzden, a climate change denying scientist who charges $2,500 a day plus expenses to consult for the oil and coal industries.

And then there are the politicians who deny climate change. Every one of them receives "campaign" funds from energy companies, and/or their states rely upon the energy sector for jobs. Oklahoma is the best example, with Senator James Inhofe representing them. He is the Chairman of the U.S. Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, and he believes global warming is a hoax, because God would never destroy the planet. Well, except for that whole Noah's Ark episode...

The most notable reversal on climate change came from climate scientist Richard Muller, who was extensively funded by the Koch brothers. A few years ago, Muller reversed his conclusion on climate change, and admitted it was real. A few years after that, after his own extensive research, he concluded that anthropogenic (man-caused) climate change is in fact real.

This short piece from 2004 is quite good, too.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/306/5702/1686.full

I realize there will always be people that will simply deny scientific fact for no other reason than it going against their own belief system but denying a fact doesn't make it untrue. I hope this helps at least get people to realize there is a common path leading to the denial of science and it involves something that is green (money) but not related to the actual environment itself.
 
Wayde Robson

Wayde Robson

Audioholics Anchorman
I read a few of the posts here and it looks like a few things are going on.


The media overdramatizes nuanced and boring scientific information. We digest it and become either:


a/ Excited/fearful about the dire warning

b/ skeptical about the dire warning because we’ve heard it all before


I was an Environmental Resources Sciences student at Trent University in Peterborough, Ontario Canada back in the day. Back then we were told that by the year 2000 maple syrup would cost its weight in gold because acid rain is killing the forests in northern Ontario and Quebec.


It never happened.


I read Gwynne Dyer’s book Climate Wars (written about 06/08?). He relayed dire predictions from specific scientists with the IPCC that said Mexico would be uninhabitable due to global warming by 2010.


Nope.


But the there’s no denying the planet is warming in key places like the Arctic, where temps can be gleaned for hundreds even thousands of years.


What do we do about it?


That’s where it gets annoying because the most vocal on both sides are just annoying people.


Let’s face it, neo-hippy “Occupy” kids and their patchouli-oiled ‘return to nature’ solutions are about as interesting as fist-pounding right-wingers who comically deny reality in their button-down efforts to flog some faux-Ayn-Randian, free market dead-horse solution.

Both are wrong.


The hippies ‘naturalist’ solutions, besides pulling tokes of solar-powered vaporizers - necessarily require us (and them) to die.


Organics, non-GMO, absolutism in energy conservation requires a majority of the population of Earth to die-off.


In this way the “peace-and-love” hippy solution is even more abhorrent and violent than anything right-wing.


Although the right doesn’t need to come up with solutions, they’re satisfied sticking their heads in the sand while parroting random quotes from Atlas Shrugged and Wealth of Nations.


The solutions start with identifying the problem in bold terms.


1/ We need to continue to consume energy at present levels and more.


2/ We need the planet to remain habitable to humans long enough for us to leave begin colonizing space.


Those solutions aren’t going to be found in the 20th Century-style, back-to-nature script calling for non-GMO organics.


GMO will play a vital role because our energy and food production solutions will not be found in the science of the very large ie. Wind, geothermal, solar … but in the very small.


There are projects already underway where scientists have developed (ahem – genetically modifyed) bacteria to be used as microscopic super-batteries.


These batteries will one-day deliver as much power as we need and will never run out because it will be it’s own self-contained eco-system.


Eventually we humans will leave this planet. We will do so on spaceships that produce food and oxygen from machines out of substances found nearly anywhere in the universe.


In the far future the entire universe will eventually be drained of energy, except what we make. We will survive the end of the universe too.


If Nikolai Kardeshev and Freeman Dyson are to be believed; “humans” will board a kind-of spaceship that takes our future species through a kind-of quantum rift to a new parallel universe that has only recently undergone the big-bang.


And perhaps the cycle begins anew.


Woa… shouldn’t have taken so deep a toke from that solar powered vape ;)
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I realize there will always be people that will simply deny scientific fact for no other reason than it going against their own belief system but denying a fact doesn't make it untrue. I hope this helps at least get people to realize there is a common path leading to the denial of science and it involves something that is green (money) but not related to the actual environment itself.
The same arguement can be used to support global warming.

Its not science. Its the corporations who own/control the science to meet their agendas. The biggest purveyor of that was your former president, George W Bush Jr who lied to the public to get support for going into Iraq a 2nd time from the supposed chemical dumps and weapons of mass destruction, etc etc. (not that I supported Sadam Insane). I'm not nieve enough to blindly drink the political Kool-Ade.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I read a few of the posts here and it looks like a few things are going on.

The media overdramatizes nuanced and boring scientific information. We digest it and become either:

a/ Excited/fearful about the dire warning

b/ skeptical about the dire warning because we’ve heard it all before

etc., ad nauseam …
In the same spirit, I noticed this recent article:

Conservationists Attempting To Get Head Start On Mars
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Oklahoma is the best example, with Senator James Inhofe representing them. He is the Chairman of the U.S. Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, and he believes global warming is a hoax, because God would never destroy the planet. Well, except for that whole Noah's Ark episode...
Now THAT made me laugh.

Sometimes I think a run for political office might be interesting, but I'm not sure I'm dumb enough. Well, maybe. :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Yes it does matter to know the cause of it so we can at least try to change our behavior to lessen its impact.
My point is we should do whatever we can to lessen the impact regardless of the cause. Knowing the problem is real should be enough.

However, I guess more people will buy into trying to lessen the impact more quickly if we know our behavior is the cause, so I stand corrected.
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So, if I google something like climate change, global warming, the majority of the hits will come from right leaning websites? Same for major newspapers and tv news outlets? The UN?
One thing is for sure, you won't get any current hits from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection!:p
 

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