Buying a turntable

[itschris]

With my new TV on the wall, I'm finally able to free up the top of my BDI cabinet for a turntable. I've looking at this one for awhile and from everything I read is a pretty good starting point.
http://wwv.crutchfield.com/p_252ESIIW/Pro-Ject-Essential-II-White.html

I'm interested in digitizing some of my old records. It's odd but a lot of my pre-CD albums (early 80's stuff)that were eventually put to CD's were often times remastered with different arrangements which I rarely like better. That model Pro-Ject comes in a USB model for a $100 more. Should I just get that or should I get some sort of gizmo to go in-line to capture the signal?

 

[j_garcia]

I'm in the same boat. I pulled my vinyl out yesterday and now I'm thinking the time is coming. Pro-ject is what I'm thinking as well, so I'll be watching this thread

 

[slipperybidness]

I've been mostly happy with my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (see my avatar).

3 items to nit-pick:
1) The felt mat that comes with it is complete garbage! Worst that I have EVER seen. That's why my pic has the Technics mat on it. I have since replaced the Technics mat with a cork mat. Just be aware of this, and plan to spend ~$25 extra for a cork mat (or ~$100 extra for the Acryl-it platter).

2) It has a wall-wart that is actually an AC/AC transformer. So, I believe this means that it's timing is actually controlled by the mains frequency. This could be problematic if the mains are not consistent. In practice, I can't say that I hear any problems in my setup, and I doubt it would make a difference. But, quartz oscillator is the best approach for that. Also, momentum from the platter should help too.

3) I just don't care for the anti-skate little dangling weight. C'mon, it just looks cheap and janky.

On the other hand, this TT gets the job done and looks great too! And, it comes with a ~$100 cart pre-installed! And a carbon fiber tone arm. If it were my $, I would step up to the Carbon over the Essential if only because of the better stock cart.

Overall, I prefer the Technics SL1210, but it is also ~3x the price of the Debut Carbon.

Honestly, if I had it to do over again, I think I would give the U-Turn a chance. http://store.uturnaudio.com/

I went with Pro-Ject because they are well established and have a better stock cart. In retrospect, I would prefer the U-Turn simply to not have to look at that cheap anti-skate device.

As far as built in pre amps, USB, archiving records.....I have no experience to share.

 

[itschris]

Thanks Slip. That U-turn looks nice for about the same money... you get an acrylic platter. i'm not looking for the end all be all... just something worthwhile. I think either will fit the bill but now I'm seriously thinking about the u-turn.

 

[fuzz092888]

Something else that might sway your opinion is that the Pro-ject now comes as the DC. Which means it more or less has the speedbox built in for consistent speeds.

I've been looking at the u-turn and the pro-ject for awhile now. For the money I'm thinking the pro-ject might edge out the u-turn, if for no other reason than they've been doing this awhile and proved they're pretty darn good at it. However, a few years down the road and an iteration or two later and the u-turn might win out.

 

[itschris]

Hmmm good info. They both look about the same. Does the Pro jest have a dust cover? That's the one thing I can't tell.

 

[itschris]

Never mind... Just saw it listed.

 

[slipperybidness]

Something else that might sway your opinion is that the Pro-ject now comes as the DC. Which means it more or less has the speedbox built in for consistent speeds.

I've been looking at the u-turn and the pro-ject for awhile now. For the money I'm thinking the pro-ject might edge out the u-turn, if for no other reason than they've been doing this awhile and proved they're pretty darn good at it. However, a few years down the road and an iteration or two later and the u-turn might win out.

Aha!

I couldn't seem to figure out what was different about the DC!

Do you have link for the info that you provided?

If it basically has the speed box built in, then that means they have already corrected 1 of my nit-picks on the Debut!

 

[TLS Guy]

I've been mostly happy with my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (see my avatar).

3 items to nit-pick:
1) The felt mat that comes with it is complete garbage! Worst that I have EVER seen. That's why my pic has the Technics mat on it. I have since replaced the Technics mat with a cork mat. Just be aware of this, and plan to spend ~$25 extra for a cork mat (or ~$100 extra for the Acryl-it platter).

2) It has a wall-wart that is actually an AC/AC transformer. So, I believe this means that it's timing is actually controlled by the mains frequency. This could be problematic if the mains are not consistent. In practice, I can't say that I hear any problems in my setup, and I doubt it would make a difference. But, quartz oscillator is the best approach for that. Also, momentum from the platter should help too.

3) I just don't care for the anti-skate little dangling weight. C'mon, it just looks cheap and janky.

On the other hand, this TT gets the job done and looks great too! And, it comes with a ~$100 cart pre-installed! And a carbon fiber tone arm. If it were my $, I would step up to the Carbon over the Essential if only because of the better stock cart.

Overall, I prefer the Technics SL1210, but it is also ~3x the price of the Debut Carbon.

Honestly, if I had it to do over again, I think I would give the U-Turn a chance. http://store.uturnaudio.com/

I went with Pro-Ject because they are well established and have a better stock cart. In retrospect, I would prefer the U-Turn simply to not have to look at that cheap anti-skate device.

As far as built in pre amps, USB, archiving records.....I have no experience to share.

The weighted anti skating device is actually the best way to go, and used on the best arms.

Magnets have drag, and springs are not uniform.

The weight system is simple straightforward and effective. With that system you know what you have got.

The mains AC frequency actually has to be very accurate, or these is trouble on the grid.

 

[itschris]

I've been reading a lot about the u-turn orbit plus. I like that its US built created from a kickstarter project. My thought is that typical me... I'll step into this and suddenly get obsessed and have to upgrade to something much grander and more expenseive... just because i'm sadly predictable that way. So I'm thnking I'd rather get the u-turn which gets great reviews... costs a bit less when you consider options and potentially save money long term if I submerse myself into this new hobby and upgrade later. Even if I don't, then I still think the u-turn will be a solid choice given a limited amount of time I have to even sit and enjoy it in the first place.

I'm gonna mull it over for a bit. I like both very much though.

 

[itschris]

I'm in the same boat. I pulled my vinyl out yesterday and now I'm thinking the time is coming. Pro-ject is what I'm thinking as well, so I'll be watching this thread

I was listening late last night with headphones to some old Duran Duran albums on this later model Pioneer turntable I have. Yes... I can admit I like Duran Duran... high school in the 80's - you could not escapte the British invasion on MTV.

But anyway... the songs are so much better. It's like when they went back to backfill the catalogs on CD they made these odd production choices to change song arrangements... sort of like Lucas did to the orginal Star Wars with results being equally bad.

Anyway.. the more I listen the more I realize just how many changes were made to all sorts of stuff from Styx, Aerosmith, to stuff like DD, Adam Ant, even Michael Jackson.

 

[slipperybidness]

The weighted anti skating device is actually the best way to go, and used on the best arms.

Magnets have drag, and springs are not uniform.

The weight system is simple straightforward and effective. With that system you know what you have got.

The mains AC frequency actually has to be very accurate, or these is trouble on the grid.

Thanks TLS! That is good info to know.

I still don't like the LOOKS of it, but now I can live with it, and all the better that it is a good approach!

 

[3db]

Thanks TLS! That is good info to know.

I still don't like the LOOKS of it, but now I can live with it, and all the better that it is a good approach!

Marriage councellors work wonders eh?

 

[macddmac]

I was listening late last night with headphones to some old Duran Duran albums on this later model Pioneer turntable I have. Yes... I can admit I like Duran Duran... high school in the 80's - you could not escapte the British invasion on MTV.

But anyway... the songs are so much better. It's like when they went back to backfill the catalogs on CD they made these odd production choices to change song arrangements... sort of like Lucas did to the orginal Star Wars with results being equally bad.

Anyway.. the more I listen the more I realize just how many changes were made to all sorts of stuff from Styx, Aerosmith, to stuff like DD, Adam Ant, even Michael Jackson.

What's wrong with the pioneer? What model is it?
If it's the lack of USB, you can always buy a phono pre with USB out and use a line input on the processor.
IMO, vintage vs. Current entry level offerings,vintage takes the prize. Plus you can upgrade the cartridge with $ saved

Cheers, Mac

 

[itschris]

it's not one of the good old pioneers. It's just some $100 turntable I got at best buy a few years ago for my mom. Nothing worthwhile...plus it's got a big gouge on the cover.

 

[fuzz092888]

Aha!

I couldn't seem to figure out what was different about the DC!

Do you have link for the info that you provided?

If it basically has the speed box built in, then that means they have already corrected 1 of my nit-picks on the Debut!

Fourth bullet down.

• New DC power supply with ultra precision frequency DC-driven AC generator (like Speed Box) for ultimate speed stability.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debutcarbondc&cat=turntables&lang=en

 

[3db]

it's not one of the good old pioneers. It's just some $100 turntable I got at best buy a few years ago for my mom. Nothing worthwhile...plus it's got a big gouge on the cover.

Yeah, the Orbit/ProJects will blow that one out of the water for sure. The carbon fibre tonearms of the entry level tabless are on par or surpass many of the tone arms on the vintage tables.

 

[itschris]

What's wrong with the pioneer? What model is it?
If it's the lack of USB, you can always buy a phono pre with USB out and use a line input on the processor.
IMO, vintage vs. Current entry level offerings,vintage takes the prize. Plus you can upgrade the cartridge with $ saved

Cheers, Mac

Do you have a recommendatons for the phone pre with USB. I think I'll need one if I get the U-Turn because I don't believe my Pio Elite receiver has a Phono-In. Right now I just use composite cables.

 

[itschris]

I just dug up my manual... does this mean I still need a phone pre-amp? I'm not sure if this for the higher end TT's like the ones we're talking about.

 

[3db]

I just dug up my manual... does this mean I still need a phone pre-amp? I'm not sure if this for the higher end TT's like the ones we're talking about.
View attachment 15189

You don't need a phono preamp as your AVR already has one. That is for playing records. However, you still need to figure out how you are going to get the signal out of the AVR and to your PC.