Revel studio 2

[bsf]

Heard these last night I think I'm going to buy them... thoughts on these and if you think theres better for the money?

I would be traiding in my month old monitor audio silver 8s for them or might use my Monitor audios in my new HT room that I'm building... I'm not sure yet

 

[PENG]

I heard the lower end Revel speakers and they sound better than any Monitor Audio (including their near flagship models) I have ever heard. They also tend to have better measurements.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...if you think theres better for the money?

Everyone thinks/feels differently. I'm sure some people will feel there are better speakers for the money and some people don't feel there are better speakers for the money.

I used to own the Revel Salon 2 for a couple of years. I feel they are as good as any other PASSIVE full-range towers.

For my money, I would go for full range towers with bass that can be ACTIVELY bi-amped.

Example of actively bi-amp towers include the RBH SX-8300 & SX-8300/R, and XTZ 100.49 towers. The NHT Classic Four & RBH SX-6300 towers can also be actively bi-amp, but the bass will be less due to smaller bass drivers and smaller cabinets.

There are other towers that can be actively bi-amp, but they also cost a lot - like the Focal Utopia towers.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Everyone thinks/feels differently. I'm sure some people will feel there are better speakers for the money and some people don't feel there are better speakers for the money.

That's true in my experience. Even when I've shown some people that certain speakers are not flat in critical frequency ranges, or that they have imaging anomalies, they still stubbornly like what they like. I've had one or two be mad at me for revealing inaccuracies they thought weren't there, but only in a very select few cases were folks "converted" to a flat octave to octave response curve, especially in the bottom three octaves. Plump bass reigns supreme.

 

[PENG]

Plump bass reigns supreme.

How true!! I used to fall for that too but grew out of it. Now I really enjoy those so called "revealing" speakers, as long as they have flat FR. Now I am obsessed enough with flat curves to spend hours and hours playing with REW/UMIK to confirm that the sound I like is not due to Placebo. I guess that's why I have faith in Revel's, KEF (R series and above only) and Focal (certain models only) speakers.

Why do we think ADTG replaced his Salon2 with RBH (hint: starts with the letter B)?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why do we think ADTG replaced his Salon2 with RBH (hint: starts with the letter B)?

Gene calls it "Stereo Bass".

It is that tight thump felt bass (unlike boomy bass) that some people may refer to as "fast" or "musical".

Perhaps I may not have set it up correctly, but I never got this "musical stereo" bass experience when I was using Revel Salon 2 or B&W 802 Diamond + Funk 18.0 subs.

Now I have to watch all the great movies again to experience this great bass.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Now I am obsessed enough with flat curves to spend hours and hours playing with REW/UMIK to confirm that the sound I like is not due to Placebo.

Ahhh... another in-room measurement fanatic! Excellent! As documented here in old posts, it took me uncounted hours of measurements, moving speakers and the sub around, and even reconfiguring the system to get things right as compared to live instruments in the same room.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Perhaps I may not have set it up correctly, but I never got this "musical stereo" bass experience when I was using Revel Salon 2 or B&W 802 Diamond + Funk 18.0 subs.

Your set-up was obviously not optimized and several of us told you so. And sometimes the configuration solution for smooth bass in a given room is not obvious or convenient, and I've never seen it done without parametric equalization. What I've learned over the past few years with OmniMic is that you can't just throw speaker hardware at the problem and expect a great result. Well, maybe if you're TLS Guy and you design your room for good sound, and then speakers for the room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your set-up was obviously not optimized and several of us told you so. And sometimes the configuration solution for smooth bass in a given room is not obvious or convenient, and I've never seen it done without parametric equalization. What I've learned over the past few years with OmniMic is that you can't just throw speaker hardware at the problem and expect a great result. Well, maybe if you're TLS Guy and you design your room for good sound, and then speakers for the room.

There is nothing OBVIOUS or black-and-white about any setup unless you've measured it, heard it, or experimented with it for a long time.

Every room is different. Every case is different.

You definitely need to at least have BEEN in the same room.

 

[Irvrobinson]

There is nothing OBVIOUS or black-and-white about any setup unless you've measured it, heard it, or experimented with it for a long time.

Every room is different. Every case is different.

You definitely need to at least have BEEN in the same room.

Weren't you running the Funk subs unequalized? In your photos you seemed to have placed the subs near the mains... true? Did you ever measure the in-room frequency response at your listening seat?

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You are trying to convince us. I'm glad your current set-up works well. I also hope you sell a bunch of them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Weren't you running the Funk subs unequalized? In your photos you seemed to have placed the subs near the mains... true? Did you ever measure the in-room frequency response at your listening seat?

BTW, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You are trying to convince us. I'm glad your current set-up works well. I also hope you sell a bunch of them.

I was doing the same thing with the Funk subs as I'm doing with my current setup - Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

I placed the 2 subs in the 2 front corners, which is next to the front L & R speakers.

The only in-room measurement was by the Audyssey Auto setup.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone of anything either. The only thing I'm doing is expressing an opinion. As I've said in the beginning, everyone has a different opinion or point of view.

I've sold almost everything I wanted to sell, except for the Linkwitz Orion.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I was doing the same thing with the Funk subs as I'm doing with my current setup - Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

I placed the 2 subs in the 2 front corners, which is next to the front L & R speakers.

The only in-room measurement was by the Audyssey Auto setup.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone of anything either. The only thing I'm doing is expressing an opinion. As I've said in the beginning, everyone has a different opinion or point of view.

I've sold almost everything I wanted to sell, except for the Linkwitz Orion.

Good point. I forgot about the Dynamic EQ. Since I've never a measured a system using that strategy, so I can't comment about it. I'm confused though, if you depend on Dynamic EQ for setup, why is bass level setting so important?

As for selling, I was referring to selling RBH products as a dealer, wishing you success in your business.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Good point. I forgot about the Dynamic EQ. Since I've never a measured a system using that strategy, so I can't comment about it. I'm confused though, if you depend on Dynamic EQ for setup, why is bass level setting so important?

As for selling, I was referring to selling RBH products as a dealer, wishing you success in your business.

Bass level setting? You mean the Speaker Channel Level settings in the pre-pro? Or the part about the active bi-amp/ gain control of the bass level? Dynamic EQ does a marvelous job with bass equalization, but the magnitude of bass is up to the individual user.

Well, being a "dealer" is just a hobby. It's kind of cool to sell something, but I seriously doubt I will ever make more than $2K per year. At the same time, I figured I could help a few guys get some RBH speakers at good prices. I mean if I were a trillionaire, I would love to open a giant super HT store with a 100 sets of speakers and amps.

Some guys ask if I were thinking about "expanding" and adding more brands of speakers and even amps. But at this point, I'm not looking to "get busy". 40 hours per week of pharmacy is busy enough for me. I like to enjoy other things.

 

[Irvrobinson]

What I meant by level setting is being able to adjust the relative volume level of the feed going to the subwoofer sections of the speakers. What you're really doing is letting DEQ equalize above a relative volume level that you arbitrarily set. That's not really letting DEQ do its job.

 

[highfigh]

Bass level setting? You mean the Speaker Channel Level settings in the pre-pro? Or the part about the active bi-amp/ gain control of the bass level? Dynamic EQ does a marvelous job with bass equalization, but the magnitude of bass is up to the individual user.

Well, being a "dealer" is just a hobby. It's kind of cool to sell something, but I seriously doubt I will ever make more than $2K per year. At the same time, I figured I could help a few guys get some RBH speakers at good prices. I mean if I were a trillionaire, I would love to open a giant super HT store with a 100 sets of speakers and amps.

Some guys ask if I were thinking about "expanding" and adding more brands of speakers and even amps. But at this point, I'm not looking to "get busy". 40 hours per week of pharmacy is busy enough for me. I like to enjoy other things.

Are you using REW to make sure the speakers are placed in a way that doesn't cause comb filtering? Does your room have standing wave issues? Does the sound change drastically if you move your head from your normal listening position to each side? If so, I would guess that you have some phase cancellations that are adversely affecting the response. I had that problem and then, I put some absorptive panels in the corners. They worked wonders! Completely eliminated the deep, deep valley in the 80 Hz region and the response is very smooth at my listening position. I also used the Distance settings in the AVR to make sure they were correct and more important, I listened to the effects and became familiar with the differences. I start without the sub and get the main speakers to work as well as possible before adding the low end. It really seems to speed up the process.

Wait- 40 hours of pharmacy? You still have 128 hours every week to be involved in your other life- Audio! You know you want to.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are you using REW to make sure the speakers are placed in a way that doesn't cause comb filtering? Does your room have standing wave issues?

I don't need measurement to tell me if there is COMB FILTERING or if the sound quality is not good.

Comb filtering will sound like crap.

 

[highfigh]

I don't need measurement to tell me if there is COMB FILTERING or if the sound quality is not good.

Comb filtering will sound like crap.

I know, but seeing it speeds up the process and if you're moving speakers/subs, you don't need to be in the listening position at the time.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I know, but seeing it speeds up the process and if you're moving speakers/subs, you don't need to be in the listening position at the time.

When you go to a live symphony or concerto, do you know what sounds good? Do you need any measurement to tell you that the sound of the instruments is crystal clear or not?

You compare the sound from your speakers to live instrument sounds. If they sound crystal clear like the live instruments, you don't need any measurement to tell you that.

That is why most of us just buy speakers that sound great in most rooms. We know what crystal clear real life instruments and vocals sound like. We don't need measurements if the speakers sound like that.

We only need measurements if the sound is NOT as good as real life sound - if there is something amiss.

 

[Irvrobinson]

When you go to a live symphony or concerto, do you know what sounds good? Do you need any measurement to tell you that the sound of the instruments is crystal clear or not?

You compare the sound from your speakers to live instrument sounds. If they sound crystal clear like the live instruments, you don't need any measurement to tell you that.

That is why most of us just buy speakers that sound great in most rooms. We know what crystal clear real life instruments and vocals sound like. We don't need measurements if the speakers sound like that.

We only need measurements if the sound is NOT as good as real life sound - if there is something amiss.

This is an interesting set of arguments. Obviously, the answer to your first question is no, because live it what it is, bad or good. Your second question is a bit more complex; if your system sounds identical to the same sounds made in the same room, it's probably pretty good. At least I think so.

The problem is if your system doesn't just pop out of the box being accurate, with relatively flat octave-to-octave balance, getting there by comparing the system sound to a reference sound has, in my experience, been less efficient than measurements. But even measurements aren't enough, IMO. In most rooms flat won't sound live. The bass octaves need to be 3-6db higher in level than the highest two octaves. I think this is because most rooms naturally reinforce bass octaves and absorb the highest ones, so live instruments will be "colored" by the room. If you adjust your system for flat measurements at your listening seat it'll sound bright and under-weight, because the system will essentially be equalized to remove the natural room coloring.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is an interesting set of arguments. Obviously, the answer to your first question is no, because live it what it is, bad or good. Your second question is a bit more complex; if your system sounds identical to the same sounds made in the same room, it's probably pretty good. At least I think so.

The problem is if your system doesn't just pop out of the box being accurate, with relatively flat octave-to-octave balance, getting there by comparing the system sound to a reference sound has, in my experience, been less efficient than measurements. But even measurements aren't enough, IMO. In most rooms flat won't sound live. The bass octaves need to be 3-6db higher in level than the highest two octaves. I think this is because most rooms naturally reinforce bass octaves and absorb the highest ones, so live instruments will be "colored" by the room. If you adjust your system for flat measurements at your listening seat it'll sound bright and under-weight, because the system will essentially be equalized to remove the natural room coloring.

Measurement is just another tool. If it can help you get the sound you want, then it's a great tool.

But the bottom line is the perceived sound. I just don't see anything better than dynamic, crystal clear, non-fatiguing midrange/treble and great tight bass. I think if you are already at this point, then just relax and enjoy the show.

If the sound I love (dynamic, crystal clear, non-fatiguing midrange/treble & great tight bass) isn't a ruler flat frequency response, I don't really care.

If the sound is not great - thin sound, muddy sound, echoing sound, etc. - then you have to fix the problem and perhaps the measurement can help you.