Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

Do Amplifiers Sound Different?

  • Yes

    Votes: 105 60.3%
  • No

    Votes: 53 30.5%
  • crikets crickets....What?

    Votes: 16 9.2%

  • Total voters
    174
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! Not before I reach 2000 thanks received :p:eek:
The thanks will stay, it's just the reputation system (red/green graph & "... should be listened to.") will be goneski. You'll be sweeeeeeeeet!!! :D

Gene says the Like system (I assume that's the same as Thanks) will have more features: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/site-suggestions-feedback/92104-audioholics-forum-redesign.html#post1053027.

I just added one more you :)
So did I. Best wishes in your quest!
 
I

ira

Audiophyte
You meant Pos Rep ... right?
No way - I have WAY too much respect for the many that have been collecting greens for many years. I strictly mean my rep points (9451 prior to this post) divided by my post count (8 as a result of this post).

So by my arbitrary measure of success and happiness, I now stand at int(9451/8) = 1181. And I owe much to Alex and others, of course, and I'm spreading as much good green cheer as I can while the sale lasts! If my rep goes down as I send rep kudos (beats me: I just don't know how the rep thing works in detail, and it really doesn't matter at this point, does it?), then I say I invested well.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
No way - I have WAY too much respect for the many that have been collecting greens for many years. I strictly mean my rep points (9451 prior to this post) divided by my post count (8 as a result of this post).

So by my arbitrary measure of success and happiness, I now stand at int(9451/8) = 1181. And I owe much to Alex and others, of course, and I'm spreading as much good green cheer as I can while the sale lasts! If my rep goes down as I send rep kudos (beats me: I just don't know how the rep thing works in detail, and it really doesn't matter at this point, does it?), then I say I invested well.
I think what Alex is referring to is that there are some individuals with a higher ratio, just in the wrong direction. There's one guy out there currently with one post and a rep score beyond -20000.
 
U

utopianemo

Junior Audioholic
Wow the poll results are interesting so far. It tells me you guys need to do a little more listening and not so much overthinking :eek:

As someone who has over 10 years of audio design experience and about 15 years measuring and analyzing and most importantly LISTENING, I can tell you my experience even in controlled listening tests is amps can and do sound different even if they measure well and aren't driven beyond their means. The degree of audibility differences depend on a lot of factors, including loudspeaker load, quality of the loudspeakers, room acoustics, source material, etc. I think I may need to host a little amp face-off at my place between the Pass Labs, Classe and Emotiva amps. Could be fun (especially if there is ample supply of alcohol involved),despite the amount of work involved.
Gene, I totally agree with you. That's why I get a little frustrated(respectfully) reading Audioholics' periodic AVR comparison pieces, as well as Tom Andry's AV Rants. Most of the attention is paid to the features of the receiver, and almost none paid to how the receivers sound, and how well the receivers live up to their power ratings.

I recently bought a Denon AVR-X2000, and ended up returning it. The feature list was great, and its gui was intuitive, and it sounded really nice. I loved using Airplay and it was very capable when it came to switching sources quickly. I returned it because although it sounded very nice, it had no more muscle than the aging JVC AVR it replaced. I use Epos Epic 2's, which are a little hungry, and the Denon just didn't have enough spunk for my needs. I'm now saving my nickels for a Pioneer Elite class D, primarily for their power handling abilities.

At any rate, I would love to read about an amp face-off, if even a good-natured one, and I would love to see more attention to how the AVR's Audioholics reviews sound when pushed hard. Keep up the good work!

Nathan Daniels
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
"Vote early and vote often!"
I probably am the only one who feel the way the question is asked, the only right/logical answer is "Yes" so there really is no point voting. That's absolutely just my own opinion/logic.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I probably am the only one who feel the way the question is asked, the only right/logical answer is "Yes" so there really is no point voting. That's absolutely just my own opinion/logic.
I went to a local dealership for one of their "Tech Talk" nights and that evening, they had Len Feldman, from Audio Magazine. The topic of the night was the same as this thread and he was from the "if two amplifiers of similar power output and specs are compared when the output level is the same, they'll sound the same" camp. I didn't work for a high-end dealer and to those of us who worked together and were there that night, it was like blasphemy- we were a Sony/Pioneer dealer and part of the Sony line we had was their VFet amps- they tended to sound more like tubes than transistors and not at all like the "common" variety of amplifiers (not receivers- this type of transistor was only available in integrated amps and separates). We were amazed that someone with his background would say this, being in our 20s and so sure of everything that we really didn't know very much about, but that never stopped us. :D

It took a while, but Feldman eventually admitted that he could hear the differences and that his test methods didn't allow enough characteristics to show.

FWIW, I have thought of Sony's better amps, like the old Audio Lab/Esoteric and ES lines, sounded very smooth and neutral to warm with their lower priced receivers and integrateds sounding fairly similar to many other brands. Their better receivers tended to sound beefier and smoother than a lot of other brands' offerings, too. Pioneer's lower line, even into the upper-mid line, sounded decent but unspectacular. Some of these are selling for big bucks now and I don't understand why- they weren't special then and they aren't special now. Onkyo was solid but we didn't carry them when I was working there and I haven't had a lot of exposure to theirs. Yamaha always seemed a bit thin-sounding, to me. FF to now and I'm using a Denon AVR-2313CI for everything but I don't have a 5.1/7.1 system- I'm into audio, not video and surround. The cost to do it right would be very high, for me. I built my speakers a while back and they do very nicely WRT extended frequency range. The impedance curve isn't particularly flat, but the receiver does a great job in the low end- smooth and very deep. It has pretty good cajones, IMO. I'll be able to compare it with a Parasound A23 soon- it's supposed to be here on Tuesday, but I think that will have better dynamics and impact. However, from the standpoint of listening to music as the main activity, this AVR sounds very good. I admit that this could be the result of a series of happy accidents, but if I feel the bass from dual 6-1/2" woofers, without a subwoofer or low frequency EQ and my feet off of the floor, I have to say it has some balls.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I certainly heard a difference in my Parasound HCA 1000A vs my closeout Crown XLS 402D. The Crown was easily a lower floor noise amp.

I could pick it out blind 100% of the time.
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
I certainly heard a difference in my Parasound HCA 1000A vs my closeout Crown XLS 402D. The Crown was easily a lower floor noise amp.

I could pick it out blind 100% of the time.
I assume both were clearly operating within their specified limits and not distorting :p :D

- Rich
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I certainly heard a difference in my Parasound HCA 1000A vs my closeout Crown XLS 402D. The Crown was easily a lower floor noise amp.

I could pick it out blind 100% of the time.
At THX input level, right? The specs show 96dB S/N ratio in that setting, 116dB at full power. The 2dB difference isn't negligible, though.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The question was: Can you hear the difference in the sound of amplifiers. I answered and I could pick it out 100% of the time.

Now the value someone assigns to that is on them. I'm not making a value judgment. It's just an empirical fact.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The question was: Can you hear the difference in the sound of amplifiers. I answered and I could pick it out 100% of the time.

Now the value someone assigns to that is on them. I'm not making a value judgment. It's just an empirical fact.
As I said, the only right answer is yes because of the way the question is asked. I have no idea how anyone could vote "No". If I voted no I must have just checked the wrong box, may be they did too:D.
 
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