News from Marantz The 8002

[RichB]

I never thought they would be totally the same but some of the main components such as the DAC would likely be the same while some will be different. For example, the transformers and caps have to be totally different. For one thing, one has power amps, larger heat sinks, power transformers, transistors and fans while the other, being just a prepro, should have smaller power transformer (but toroidal), capacitors and heat sinks.


I always assume that were not the same build minus amp. My bottom line is that different or better build do not necessarily result in audible sound quality and at the level of the two I am quite confident the point of diminishing return has been reached, or closely approached. I would wait for the 2016/7 models for sure.

By the way, I once wrote to Marantz about the diferences between the 4520 and the 8801 (after purchasing the 8801) and was told to expect no sound quality difference. You won't believe the reason he cited.

From SteveH (Dealer) at AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1535197-marantz-av8802-13-2-xlr-processor-hdmi-2-0-isf-wifi-bluetooth-details-42.html#post31543985

I've attached some pictures of the entire DAC board. As we discussed earlier, the 7702 uses the the Burr Brown PCM1690. The PCM 1690 is an 8ch DAC and therefore needs 2pcs (see right hand layout). The 8802 uses the 2014 designed flagship stereo AK4490. It uses a total of 7, 2 channel reference DAC's along with all of those filter capacitors than can be plainly seen littered over the entire multi-layered board.

So different DACs in kind and number.

- Rich

 

[BWguy]

I currently have the 8801 and not really interested in atmos and the other video improvements. I am about 75% music and 25% movies/tv. Will the 8802 give me noticeable improvement for music?

 

[RichB]

After I finally get through, with the disaster which is the rehab of my house, I plan to go two channel in my 3rd bedroom, and try a different pair of mains. I am interested in the Oppo HA-1 or its successor.

I use the HA-1 in bypass mode for HT and the DAC for two channel. It is the best I have ever heard.
The ESS DACs are configured differently than the BDP-105D. The HA-1 has an analog volume control and different output stages. It sounds similar to the 105D but better in my system. Sibilants are smoother and the bass is more defined.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

I use the HA-1 in bypass mode for HT and the DAC for two channel. It is the best I have ever heard.
The ESS DACs are configured differently than the BDP-105D. The HA-1 has an analog volume control and different output stages. It sounds similar to the 105D but better in my system. Sibilants are smoother and the bass is more defined.

- Rich

To me it is the best for sq regardless of price, can't say the same for the 105.

 

[PENG]

I currently have the 8801 and not really interested in atmos and the other video improvements. I am about 75% music and 25% movies/tv. Will the 8802 give me noticeable improvement for music?

I guess in theory no unless you have those golden ears but subjectively, only you can judge.

 

[cpp]

Which unit are you referring to that you dealer had, the 8802 or the Denon 7200. It's my derstanding that the 8802 hasn't even hit the US shores yet, but if so, what is your dealers name if he is stocking it? 8802 isn't supposed to launch until March.

On HDCP 2.2, pretty much every 2014 UHD TV supports it, though not in full bandwidth and it's only 4:2:0 vs.4:4:4 color.

UHD Blue Ray players will require it. I am confused on another point you brought up. HDCP 2.2 is not backwards compatible? This is not what I have read from various sites, so this is news to me?

Heck I was reading the OP thread title, 8002. Like you noted the dealer won't have the new marantz until late 1st qtr.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I never thought they would be totally the same but some of the main components such as the DAC would likely be the same while some will be different. For example, the transformers and caps have to be totally different. For one thing, one has power amps, larger heat sinks, power transformers, transistors and fans while the other, being just a prepro, should have smaller power transformer (but toroidal), capacitors and heat sinks.

Wouldn't the cost in parts be MORE if the components have power amps, larger heat sinks, bigger power transformers?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I actually thought the $1,000 4520 and $1,999 8801 are great deals now for those not interested in the latest features and the incremental electronic upgrades.

I still don't think you can beat the 4520 for $1K.

 

[PENG]

Wouldn't the cost in parts be MORE if the components have power amps, larger heat sinks, bigger power transformers?

Sure, but volume matters, what do you think the ratio of sales will be for the 8802 to X7200W say in the next 3 years? It does cost more to build in those balanced I/Os, more generous use of copper on the chassis, and the use of custom toroidal transformers vs the AVR's custom EI core transformers. Also, we all know perceived higher end gears typically command much higher margins regardless. Audiophiles typically are more receptive to higher prices and to them the 8802 is still very affordable. I bet you if Anthem has a prepro that packs the same or better feature set, guys like Cos and Rich would go for the perceived better build quality, higher grade components instead of the Marantz. I thought you are a MBA so should know better.. By the way, so why did you buy the AVP back then? That must have costed a small fortune despite the deep discounts you must have gotten.

 

[Cos]

[

Sure, but volume matters, what do you think the ratio of sales will be for the 8802 to X7200W say in the next 3 years? It does cost more to build in those balanced I/Os, more generous use of copper on the chassis, and the use of custom toroidal transformers vs the AVR's custom EI core transformers. Also, we all know perceived higher end gears typically command much higher margins regardless. Audiophiles typically are more receptive to higher prices and to them the 8802 is still very affordable. I bet you if Anthem has a prepro that packs the same or better feature set, guys like Cos and Rich would go for the perceived better build quality, higher grade components instead of the Marantz. I thought you are a MBA so should know better.. By the way, so why did you buy the AVP back then? That must have costed a small fortune despite the deep discounts you must have gotten.

Purchased the AV7005 and had nothing but problems, "Perceived Build Quality" or actual, it felt flimsy compared to the Anthem,(Physical build, not components) could not get rid of hum. In fact Peng, you were one of the first persons who tried to help me fix it. I ended up with the Integra 80.3 which didn't have the hum issue "all things being equal"

Here is why I would go back to Anthem, I bought the unit, it was rock solid, had 0 problems with it, resold it for a good amount. Positive experience with it. AV7005 not so much, so I figured I would go up market a bit to get the extra, build quality with the HDMI board, and other pieces, because they would hopefully last longer and hopefully reduce the changes for noise in the signal path. After the AV8802 I am not going to be upgrading, because I will have run out of room for speakers! .

 

[PENG]

[



Purchased the AV7005 and had nothing but problems, "Perceived Build Quality" or actual, it felt flimsy compared to the Anthem,(Physical build, not components) could not get rid of hum. In fact Peng, you were one of the first persons who tried to help me fix it. I ended up with the Integra 80.3 which didn't have the hum issue "all things being equal"

Here is why I would go back to Anthem, I bought the unit, it was rock solid, had 0 problems with it, resold it for a good amount. Positive experience with it. AV7005 not so much, so I figured I would go up market a bit to get the extra, build quality with the HDMI board, and other pieces, because they would hopefully last longer and hopefully reduce the changes for noise in the signal path. After the AV8802 I am not going to be upgrading, because I will have run out of room for speakers! .

I have no idea why people had trouble with the AV7005 yet mine has been working fine without any issues. The AV8801 is definitely of higher build quality but for more than double the price it should be. The Anthem D2v looks like a tank but surprisingly it is a few pounds lighter than the AV8801 and 8802. I do think the 8802 is a more sensible deal than the much more expensive Anthem.

The only concern I have with prepro is that they are expensive but still get outdated quickly.

 

[RichB]

Sure, but volume matters, what do you think the ratio of sales will be for the 8802 to X7200W say in the next 3 years? It does cost more to build in those balanced I/Os, more generous use of copper on the chassis, and the use of custom toroidal transformers vs the AVR's custom EI core transformers. Also, we all know perceived higher end gears typically command much higher margins regardless. Audiophiles typically are more receptive to higher prices and to them the 8802 is still very affordable. I bet you if Anthem has a prepro that packs the same or better feature set, guys like Cos and Rich would go for the perceived better build quality, higher grade components instead of the Marantz. I thought you are a MBA so should know better.. By the way, so why did you buy the AVP back then? That must have costed a small fortune despite the deep discounts you must have gotten.

It is true, that sending my AV8801 for two separate trigger repairs greatly reduced the "perceived" quality
Two owners of the 7702 have reported trigger failures. One with the low voltage problem which I had on the first failure and the other with the burned out death of the transistor that you could smell across the room. I had that too

The build quality of the AV8802 looks great and it may sound better too, still it would be nice if they could build a robust trigger circuit
I had the Integra RDC-7, Onkyo 889 (I think), and 5507 and never had a trigger fail. I don't think you can blame in on the Halo amps either.

Also, I perceived the thermal design to be lacking because the center back reached over 120 F on an open shelf.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

The only concern I have with prepro is that they are expensive but still get outdated quickly.

The solution to that problem: eBay.ca

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Also, I perceived the thermal design to be lacking because the center back reached over 120 F on an open shelf.

- Rich

I tend to agree, I have 2 fans blowing at my 8801 after hearing your story. Denon don't put two fans in their flag ship AVR for no reasons. There are just way too much heat produced by the powerful processors in the newer models.

 

[RichB]

There may be more to the trigger failures then heat:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1696641-official-marantz-av7702-pre-pro-106.html#post31599249

Is there a EE in the house?

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sure, but volume matters, what do you think the ratio of sales will be for the 8802 to X7200W say in the next 3 years? It does cost more to build in those balanced I/Os, more generous use of copper on the chassis, and the use of custom toroidal transformers vs the AVR's custom EI core transformers. Also, we all know perceived higher end gears typically command much higher margins regardless. Audiophiles typically are more receptive to higher prices and to them the 8802 is still very affordable. I bet you if Anthem has a prepro that packs the same or better feature set, guys like Cos and Rich would go for the perceived better build quality, higher grade components instead of the Marantz. I thought you are a MBA so should know better.. By the way, so why did you buy the AVP back then? That must have costed a small fortune despite the deep discounts you must have gotten.

No business degree here. Just clinical pharmacology stuff.

To me the Denon AVP-A1HDCI was a "last pre-pro I will ever need to buy" kind of purchase.

I paid about $5800 for the AVP-A1 (MSRP $7500) from my local dealer.

That's how I feel about my speaker system too.

Oh, look here is a Denon AVP for sale on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-AVP-A1HDCI-Ultra-Reference-AV-Network-Preamp-Processor-100-Days-Warranty-/171550184556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f130146c#ht_638wt_917