Which is the problem: BDP or Receiver?

[PENG]

Hi PENG and JMJVK. I read the manual and I think that it doesn't mean ALL pcm is subject to prologic.

The part I think you are looking at on 34,35 says, "PCM-audio signals can be subjected to Pro Logic processing when the sampling frequency is 32, 44.1, and 48khz."

It also says that pcm signals at sampling frequencies of 96khz will be muted if played with the receiver's surround modes.

As far as the Sony player not decoding Dolby formats. I'm not sure if what I found was correct but it made sense to me.

I have used three post 2013 Sony blu ray players and each one only decoded Dolby TrueHD internally and output as 2.0 pcm.

I have a Samsung that gives me all channels correctly when internally decoding Dolby TrueHD.

Thanks again for the input. I am saving up for an Oppo 103.

Yes those are the two pages I referred to and it does mean what I told you, and please know that 48 kHz is the frequency for Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1. I have owned 3 Sony BDP, still have two and a PS3 in the house and they all have no issue playing DD, DD+, DTS, DDTHD, DTSHD, DTSMSTRHD bitstream or PCM. Your Marantz SR5001 is just not capable of accepting the signal at the 48 kHz and higher frequencies without applying pro logic . If you tried feeding it with uncompressed PCM that is at 96 kHz you won't even get sound.

I did not look up the manual of the 5002 but the 5003 can handle PCM uncompressed.

 

[whgarrett1394]

I read that as meaning you are able to apply Pro Logic processing to signals with 32, 44.1, and 48khz but with anything 96khz and higher is not compatible with those surround modes.

I happen to be listening to a blu ray of Beck's Sea Change. It's weird because when I send the 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio 24bit/192khz tracks to the receiver as bitstream it lights up it's DTS and 96khz/24-bit logos. When I send the 5.1 PCM 24bit/192khz it just lights up as PCM. The PCM tracks are a little louder than the DTS. When I internally decode 5.1 DTSMSTRHD 24bit/192khz and 5.1 PCM 24bit/192khz the receiver just lights up as PCM. I figured that the reason the DTS logo lit up was because the receiver was only reading the lossy "core", but would that be 24bit/96khz? Confused. I tried playing the cd quality stereo version and was able to apply Neo 6, DPLII, and CSII but none sounded as good as the surround tracks.

 

[PENG]

I read that as meaning you are able to apply Pro Logic processing to signals with 32, 44.1, and 48khz but with anything 96khz and higher is not compatible with those surround modes.

That is how I read it too and that means it cannot decode any surround sound 48 kHz signal in discrete (vs prologic).

I happen to be listening to a blu ray of Beck's Sea Change. It's weird because when I send the 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio 24bit/192khz tracks to the receiver as bitstream it lights up it's DTS and 96khz/24-bit logos. When I send the 5.1 PCM 24bit/192khz it just lights up as PCM. The PCM tracks are a little louder than the DTS. When I internally decode 5.1 DTSMSTRHD 24bit/192khz and 5.1 PCM 24bit/192khz the receiver just lights up as PCM. I figured that the reason the DTS logo lit up was because the receiver was only reading the lossy "core", but would that be 24bit/96khz? Confused. I tried playing the cd quality stereo version and was able to apply Neo 6, DPLII, and CSII but none sounded as good as the surround tracks.

If you use the Sony to decode (as opposed to bitstream), and output in PCM, the receiver will of course display PCM as that is all it knows. This is the same with even the latest model receivers. I don't know about the SR5001 but I do know the newer D&M models do show "Multi-channel in", and the sampling frequency if you select menu (or setup) or "general/audio/info" or something like that, depending on the specific model.

Basically, with your SR5001 you are doing the best you can do now. JMJVK did offer you the option of using the multi-channel in, but then you will have to get a player that offers multi-channel analog outputs. You can get a used Sony, Samsung or Panasonic or spend more on the Oppo 103.

 

[whgarrett1394]

I just found another thread from bluray forum that says the same thing about Sony players after 2013. They can only internally decode Dolby and output as 2.0 PCM.
I have posted on the SOny website and am waiting for a response.

Here is the third link

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=240800

 

[JMJVK]

I have a BDP-S5100. made some tests. DTS-HD-Master is downsampled to DTS. Dolby True-HD isn't.

On my old AVR without HDMI, I can get a 48Khz stereo PCM. The surround downsample option (Sony's audio settings) did not work at all.

On my newer AVR with HDMI, I can get a 96Khz stereo PCM. At first, the surround downsample option did not work. After switching the soundtrack to a different one and back to True-HD, the surround downsample PCM started to work.



It seems to that the player probabaly doesn't what it takes. Personally, I think it may just not have enough RAM for it... (It won't even start the THX1138 BD without a USB stick to add storage) So, whatever the reason the multi-ch downsample does not work, it doesn't change the fact that, as Peng mentioned, your AVR is doing the best it can.

It's either a receiver, or a BD player. Two players below are options available to you. There may be others, but finding any optical device with a decent analog stage is difficult these days, unless you go into uber high-end.


Samsung BD-F7500 $207.99 with FREE Shipping at Amazon.
OPPO BDP-103 $499.00 with FREE Shipping at Amazon.


Either is cheaper than a receiver, unless you go entry-level. The Oppo's performance is known and proven, with testimonials all over the place. A new receiver is a potential can of worms, the Sammy has less features than the Oppo, and you'll have to research to learn if it actually does all you need it to do.

 

[PENG]

I just found another thread from bluray forum that says the same thing about Sony players after 2013. They can only internally decode Dolby and output as 2.0 PCM.
I have posted on the SOny website and am waiting for a response.

Here is the third link

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=240800

You got me curious enough now to check out your Sony BDP-BX110's specs and here's the link in case you have not been there yet.

https://docs.sony.com/release/SPECS/BDPBX110_mksp.pdf

So it is true that this, and likely the other newer models, has limitation decoding DTHD. I agree it is weird that it could decode DTSHDMA. The HDMI out can still handle all lossless/uncompressed signal including LPCM. That means if you have a disc that has LPCM7.1 the BX110 can output it.

As to why they could not decode Dolby TrueHD, you have to ask Sony. I also checked the price of the older models such as the BX38,39,590 and they all seem to start at $199.99.

The bottom line is, even if you have the older model, such as my PS3, BX38, BX59, you will still have the same issue because your SR5001 is the show stopper as it can't handle 48 kHz in multchannel and will mute 96 kHz. You've got to trust what the manuals tell you, most of the time anyway. Sorry I did not read the Specs of the BX110 in the first place, but what a surprise though..

 

[whgarrett1394]

Thank you for the link PENG!! That information is not in the paper manual that came with the player. Go figure.

I am at peace now.

 

[TLS Guy]

You got me curious enough now to check out your Sony BDP-BX110's specs and here's the link in case you have not been there yet.

https://docs.sony.com/release/SPECS/BDPBX110_mksp.pdf

So it is true that this, and likely the other newer models, has limitation decoding DTHD. I agree it is weird that it could decode DTSHDMA. The HDMI out can still handle all lossless/uncompressed signal including LPCM. That means if you have a disc that has LPCM7.1 the BX110 can output it.

As to why they could not decode Dolby TrueHD, you have to ask Sony. I also checked the price of the older models such as the BX38,39,590 and they all seem to start at $199.99.

The bottom line is, even if you have the older model, such as my PS3, BX38, BX59, you will still have the same issue because your SR5001 is the show stopper as it can't handle 48 kHz in multchannel and will mute 96 kHz. You've got to trust what the manuals tell you, most of the time anyway. Sorry I did not read the Specs of the BX110 in the first place, but what a surprise though..

I think we are moving into an era where players only output HDMI.

This is what the studios want.

There is no requirement for decoding Dolby True HD. DTS Master HD is an extension of DTS, and so it is easy to decode.

There is only a requirement now to output 2.0 from outputs other then HDMI.

For some time discs have been allowed to have a flag to force only 2.0 from everything except HDMI. New players now have to have a flag to detect it.

So it makes sense to have their players only output surround from HDMI.

They avoid the flag detection problem and they won't get bothered by customers thinking they have faulty discs or players, when dome discs will give 5.1 and others 2.0.

I think 2.0 from all outputs except HDMI will be the norm from here on out.

I think they really have forced the issue, and surround equipment that can not make an HDMI connection is rapidly becoming useless and worthless.

 

[PENG]

Thank you for the link PENG!! That information is not in the paper manual that came with the player. Go figure.

I am at peace now.

Found one that can do the trick, for only $109.99
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMP-BDT360-Network-Blu-Ray-Player/dp/B00JLOES8G/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1423269978&sr=1-1&keywords=panasonic+bdt360

but you will still need a slightly more up to date model receiver, such as the SR5003, otherwise just keep saving for the Oppo 103.

 

[PENG]

I think we are moving into an era where players only output HDMI.

This is what the studios want.

There is no requirement for decoding Dolby True HD. DTS Master HD is an extension of DTS, and so it is easy to decode.

There is only a requirement now to output 2.0 from outputs other then HDMI.

For some time discs have been allowed to have a flag to force only 2.0 from everything except HDMI. New players now have to have a flag to detect it.

So it makes sense to have their players only output surround from HDMI.

They avoid the flag detection problem and they won't get bothered by customers thinking they have faulty discs or players, when dome discs will give 5.1 and others 2.0.

I think 2.0 from all outputs except HDMI will be the norm from here on out.

I think they really have forced the issue, and surround equipment that can not make an HDMI connection is rapidly becoming useless and worthless.

I agree with you but the OP's issue is a little different. He's okay with HDMI but he needs his player to internally decode DDTHD and output it in multichannel PCM. The older Sony BDP, such as mine can do it but not the newer models. Additionally, even if he gets a BDP that can decode internally, his older Marantz SR5001 will apply prologic to the signal if fs is 48 kHz.