2.1 Budget System Build Advice Needed

BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Again, I would suggest heavily vs any Cerwin Vega speakers, and urge you to add Philharmotic AA's speakers back into your short list.
I have not heard much from Boston, but zieglj01 is no audiophool - he's know what is talking about.
If you can find local dealer carrying this model I think it's worth a listen
 
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Benbon86

Enthusiast
Consider CV removed from the list. Sorry guys, I guess it's just a little nerve wracking getting into an expensive hobby and not knowing much about it. It doesn't help that CT has next to no audio shops around. Also, besides space being an issue, I guess I'm shying away from tower speakers since they require more power to be driven in the correct manner. I don't have the money for an amp and I'm not even sure if you can bridge the power on these surround sound receivers.

SO far it looks like its coming down to the wave crest speakers or HSU. With wave crest, it looks like I could afford to add a third speaker for the center. Those things have great pricing.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
SO far it looks like its coming down to the wave crest speakers or HSU. With wave crest, it looks like I could afford to add a third speaker for the center. Those things have great pricing.
Try the Wave Crest out - they have a return policy, if you find
that you do not like them.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Consider CV removed from the list. Sorry guys, I guess it's just a little nerve wracking getting into an expensive hobby and not knowing much about it. It doesn't help that CT has next to no audio shops around. Also, besides space being an issue, I guess I'm shying away from tower speakers since they require more power to be driven in the correct manner. I don't have the money for an amp and I'm not even sure if you can bridge the power on these surround sound receivers.

SO far it looks like its coming down to the wave crest speakers or HSU. With wave crest, it looks like I could afford to add a third speaker for the center. Those things have great pricing.
1) This hobby can be expensive, but doesn't have to be expensive to get good sound! Just a little bit of leg work (that you are already doing by asking around), and a $1000 budget or so like you have, and you can/will have a sound system better than 95% of the people you know!

One of my favorite quotes from this site (I can't remember the poster or I would give credit): "I spent a lot of money to learn that I didn't have to spend a lot of $ at all."

2) Tower speakers typically will take LESS power than bookshelf speakers. They are more efficient, in general. Here's a little info from Salk (disclaimer: I didn't read it all yet but it looks like decent info and Salk knows what he is talking about).
http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=56

3) So, with the items you have chosen, what is the budget left for speakers? You may be better off going with 2 better speakers than 3 inferior ones. But, those Wavecrest are most likely killer speakers at that price.
 
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Benbon86

Enthusiast
As an update, I'll more than likely change the receiver to a Denon AVRX3000 for more watts per channel. The 1100 is 80 watts where the 3000 is 105. I really want to like Onkyo since their receivers have more watts per channel at the same price point compared to Denon BUT, I've read so many more negative reviews regarding their HDMI boards frying and wifi / blue tooth dropping connection all the time and so on...much more negative out there on Onkyo compared to Denon from what I see.

The Denon is 500 from the dent and scratch section and the VTF is 500 which leaves me around 500 max to spend on speakers. So far my options are:

Option1
HSU Hybrid package 2.1 (comes with 1 vtf sub and 2 HB1s) - 929 shipped
Denon AVRX3000 - 500 scratch and dent
Rough Total - just under $1500

Option 2
HSU VTF - 500
Denon AVRX3000 - 500 scratch and dent
Wave Crest HVL-1 pair - 188
Rough Total - $1200

Option 3
HSU VTF - 500
Denon AVRX3000 - 500 scratch and dent
Speakers - Fill in blank
Rough Total - NA
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Hmm. Right at $500 for the pair of speakers.

Well, here is another one for the list, but ~$600 for the pair.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html

Ascend also designed those Wavecrest speakers that have been put on your list. I haven't heard either set personally, but some of the other guys on here certainly have.

I know this may make it more difficult, but there are some other good options too!

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/kefq300-p/kef-q300-q-series-6-1/2-inch-bookshelf-speakers-pair/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/focal706v2ba/focal-chorus-706-v2-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black-ash/1.html

http://www.svsound.com/speakers/prime-series/prime-satellite-2-1

http://www.svsound.com/speakers/prime-series/prime-bookshelf
 
B

Benbon86

Enthusiast
Hmm. Right at $500 for the pair of speakers.

Well, here is another one for the list, but ~$600 for the pair.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html

Ascend also designed those Wavecrest speakers that have been put on your list. I haven't heard either set personally, but some of the other guys on here certainly have.

I know this may make it more difficult, but there are some other good options too!

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/kefq300-p/kef-q300-q-series-6-1/2-inch-bookshelf-speakers-pair/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/focal706v2ba/focal-chorus-706-v2-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black-ash/1.html

http://www.svsound.com/speakers/prime-series/prime-satellite-2-1

http://www.svsound.com/speakers/prime-series/prime-bookshelf
Man! lol I must say, the cmt340s look nice as well as those svs prime speakers! I know SVS is known for making great sub but what about their speakers? I guess now I'm wondering how all 4 would compare between the cmt340s, prime bookshelf, west crave hvl1 or the hsu speakers. I'm looking to get as full or rich of a sound as possible.

I do know that regardless I'll still be sticking with the HSU sub since it seems to be the best option.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
As an update, I'll more than likely change the receiver to a Denon AVRX3000 for more watts per channel. The 1100 is 80 watts where the 3000 is 105. I really want to like Onkyo since their receivers have more watts per channel
Hoo-wah! Are you related to Tim Allen?:)

You are focusing too much on power! Consider this:
Assuming Denon has not changed how they spec their products, this unit will produce a bit more than 80 watts RMS per channel 20Hz to 20kHz into 2 channels. The RMS essentially means it will sustain this level of power as opposed to being able to hit it for a fraction of a second (sometimes called dynamic power). However, because this is a 7 channel amp, the power supply and capacitance is going to be more rigorous, giving the receiver great capability to respond to the loud transients in music (like a rim tap on the snare).
Next, consider that you are using a subwoofer. That means you are off-loading the signal below 80-100Hz to the amplifier of the sub. The low frequencies are generally the most demanding for an amplifier to drive.

But most importantly, the relationship between watts and sound level is not linear. Increasing wattage from 80 to 105 Watts will only gain you 1.3dB (you can notice a 1dB increase, but it is not very impressive). Play with the calculator below, seeing what difference wattage makes.
If this is a sticking point for you because you know you like to listen insanely loud, then you should really consider the Hsu speakers because with a sensitivity of 92dB, they are 6dB louder than the Wave Crests.
If you combine the Hsu speakers with 80Watts (I assumed 9 feet away from speaker and within 4' of a wall in the calculator), you are producing an SPL of 108.3dB.
The same situation with the 86dB sensitivity of the Wave Crests gets you 102.3 dB (which is too loud).
As a reference, a jack hammer is 100dB at 3 feet away and 85dB is the action limit for hearing damage in the workplace.
So if you want an amp to get the Wave Crests as loud as the Hsu, pull out your wallet... 320 Watts per channel!

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Also, I set up 86dB bookshelfs in a 2.1 application using a 75 watt per channel Denon AVR 1513 receiver in a 15X22 room and it went louder than I would ever listen.

Now, I really don't want to see anyone choosing speakers because of efficiency over sound quality, but understand that putting your money into the receiver is not going to do much for you (unless it has features you will use).

There are some speakers that do require amplification beyond a mainstream receiver (Magnepan comes to mind), but as long as you tell us the speakers you are considering, we would generally recognize and flag them.
 
jcparks

jcparks

Full Audioholic
Dont forget shipping on the HSU sub. The VTF 1 is about 500 shipped but the VTF 2 is going to cost you around 570 shipped...
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
KEW makes good points on the watts and power etc.

I forgot to address that earlier.

The takeaway is that 80W vs. 100W is negligible!

One little peeve of mine. I hate hearing "double the power only equals 3dB". In reality, 2x power = 3dB.

Leave out the "ONLY".

BY DEFINITION, double the power equals 3dB increase.

It's like saying 2 + 2 only equals 4. Rather silly when you look at it like that?
 
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Benbon86

Enthusiast
Kew - Haha, that was pretty good. After I get this build setup, hopefully I'll be more like Wilson since my neighbors probably won't ever want to see my face again lol. That was a great response though and I definitely did not consider that factor. I guess maybe I was looking at it from the perspective of if I pick up the 340 towers, the extra bit of juice might help.

JCparks - From a budget perspective, as long as I can keep the cost at or under 1500 before shipping, I'll be fine. I can see why you brought that up though since earlier, I accounted for the shipping of the HSU package and did not do so with the rest. Thanks for the heads up!

With that being said, I'll opt to go back to the Denon 1100W and save some money by picking up the scratch and dent for 424 unless I can find a lower price.

At this point, it looks like it's coming down to the HSU HB1s or the cmt340s. Does anyone have any experience with either of these speakers or a preference? I'll be looking to have my mind made up by Monday.

PS - You guys have been incredible through this process and I can't thank you enough. It's very much appreciated.
 
jcparks

jcparks

Full Audioholic
I know Afterlife recently picked up a pair of the HB1's, and ImcLoud swears by the Ascends... maybe they will chime in.
Keep in mind both companies have 30 day trials... you can buy both right now and just send back which ever pair you least like.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm with KEW - don't over think watts too much. 90db SPL volume is plenty o'loud.
Spend a bit less on electronics and more on speakers. Ascend 340SE are better speaker than Wave Crest, as the later supposed to be lower budget option.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
We got him pointed in the right direction.

I don't think he will be disappointed by any of the choices offered (though I have not heard them all myself).

I think now it's down to "speaker A does this better, but speaker B excels on that".
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I guess maybe I was looking at it from the perspective of if I pick up the 340 towers, the extra bit of juice might help.
Another misconception!
Generally a tower requires less power (though it can handle more)!
For example the CBM170's have an efficiency of 91dB, while the CMT340 is 92dB ... so the X3000 paired with the 170 would achieve the same SPL as the X1100 with the 340.

You may need to earmark some of the money you save on the receiver to make sure your fence is in compliance!
 
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Benbon86

Enthusiast
I've decided on the final build:

Denon X1100
HSU VTF2 MK4
Ascend CMT 340SE's

Thanks for all the help guys!
 
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