Why would anyone do that?

[Rickster71]

Then I read in the newspaper this morning how two politicians (Rand Paul and Chris Christy, both in the running for President in 2016) have spoken out on this issue. And I got really mad at them. How dare they try to play political football with this! I would love the chance to speak to them face-to-face on this, and say “ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?”

Oh yes, the classic Red Herring.
While the press is busy manufacturing consent with sensational story titles.
No one is scratching their collective heads and wondering how these once eradicated contagions
(in the USA) were re-introduced.

 

[Swerd]

Oh yes, the classic Red Herring.
While the press is busy manufacturing consent with sensational story titles.
No one is scratching their collective heads and wondering how these once eradicated contagions
(in the USA) were re-introduced.

This is my rant, and its about anti-vaxxers .

I'm against the organic/purity/left-wing anti-vaxxers and the liberty-above-all-else/right-wing anti-vaxxers. They both threaten public health.

Yes, there are large populations of unimmunized people in other countries, but if you aren't immunized, you will get the same measles from a legal visitor or an illegal immigrant.

 

[Rickster71]

This is my rant, and its about anti-vaxxers .

I'm against the organic/purity/left-wing anti-vaxxers and the liberty-above-all-else/right-wing anti-vaxxers. They both threaten public health.

Yes, there are large populations of unimmunized people in other countries, but if you aren't immunized, you will get the same measles from a legal visitor or an illegal immigrant.

I got confused when you posted Rand Paul and Chris Christie.
They both had their own children vaccinated and aren't 'Anti-Vaxxers.
According to the CDC Legal Immigrants are required to be vaccinated for 14 different deceases:
http://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html#whatvaccines

 

[Swerd]

I got confused when you posted Rand Paul and Chris Christie.
They both had their own children vaccinated and aren't 'Anti-Vaxxers.

They both tried, opportunistically, to gain political points by favoring watered down state requirements for vaccination, appealing to anti-vaxxers. They deserve widespread condemnation for that.

According to the CDC Legal Immigrants are required to be vaccinated for 14 different deceases:
http://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html#whatvaccines

And yet, we don't have similar requirements for US citizens born here.

 

[Rickster71]

They both tried, opportunistically, to gain political points by favoring watered down state requirements for vaccination, appealing to anti-vaxxers. They deserve widespread condemnation for that.
And yet, we don't have similar requirements for US citizens born here.

I gave up listening to anything pandering politicians say or do. I supplied a post earlier in the thread listing two others doing it too.

I supplied info from the CDC when you posted this: "you will get the same measles from a legal visitor..."
We wouldn't get measles from someone that was vaccinated.

 

[Swerd]

I supplied info from the CDC when you posted this: "you will get the same measles from a legal visitor..."
We wouldn't get measles from someone that was vaccinated.

The new vaccination criteria apply to all applicants who seek legal permanent residence in the United States. It doesn't apply to tourists. It is thought, but not demonstrated, that the recent US measles outbreak may have come from the Phillipines, where a large measles outbreak has been going on for some time. With all those non-immunized people here, it would only take one infected tourist at Disneyland to spread the disease.

Immunity can take about 2 weeks, at a minimum, before it begins to develop, sometimes much longer. If someone got all their shots shortly before traveling to the US, they could still acquire and transmit an infectious virus like measles.

As I mentioned earlier, not all vaccinations result in immunity. Nothing in biology is 100%.

The CDCP generates these immunization requirements for immigration, but they do not have the legal authority to enforce them. I wonder if they are enforced.

 

[Jeff R.]

Can I ask quite possibly a stupid question? I know nothing about this topic...

However, I am not sure how somebody not getting a vaccine is a risk to you or your family? If you get your vaccines are you not immune to the disease? So why do you care if somebody chooses to take the risk for their particular reasons?

Am I missing something?

 

[Chu Gai]

I've read that about 95% of children become immune after the first shot and 99% after the second. Getting another one later in life doesn't hurt. So, it's not perfect but the alternative isn't so good.

 

[Swerd]

… I am not sure how somebody not getting a vaccine is a risk to you or your family? If you get your vaccines are you not immune to the disease? So why do you care if somebody chooses to take the risk for their particular reasons?

The real goal of vaccination is to eradicate the infectious disease altogether. Immunizations of individuals is only a step in that path. Some 20 years ago, the World Health Organization thought that smallpox had been eliminated world-wide. They were wrong – smallpox remains – but if it or other infectious diseases ever do become completely eradicated, it would be possible to stop vaccinations. I hope to see that day.

Some people never develop immunity even though they were immunized. Other people cannot be immunized for medical reasons, such as allergies to egg components. Others even though they had been immunized, loose their ability to respond to an infectious challenge later in their lives. All these people would be jeopardized by non-immunized people who might pass the disease onto them, unless the disease was truly eradicated.

As an example of my last point, have you ever heard of shingles? People who had chicken pox as youngsters became immune to the herpes zoster virus that causes it, but they often get shingles later in their lives. Why? Herpes zoster can hide out, dormant, in tissues indefinitely, until the acquired immunity fails in older people. Then they not only get shingles, which can be very painful, but they can pass the virus onto others. Fortunately the measles virus doesn't work like h. zoster, but other viruses can.

This is exactly what the whole debate is about. And the answer isn't as simple as the anti-vaxxers would like to believe.

 

[Swerd]

I've read that about 95% of children become immune after the first shot and 99% after the second. Getting another one later in life doesn't hurt. So, it's not perfect but the alternative isn't so good.

That may be so for measles on average, but can vary among different individuals. The immune response for the measles vaccine is among the best for any vaccines to viral diseases. The polio vaccine also tends to get very high response rates.

Immunization against other diseases can vary by a lot. With influenza, for example, we can usually expect only about 60% effectiveness with most vaccinations. For the strain responsible for this years flu outbreak, the vaccine was disappointing, only 23% effective.

 

[its phillip]

As an example of my last point, have you ever heard of shingles? People who had chicken pox as youngsters became immune to the herpes zoster virus that causes it, but they often get shingles later in their lives. Why? Herpes zoster can hide out, dormant, in tissues indefinitely, until the acquired immunity fails in older people. Then they not only get shingles, which can be very painful, but they can pass the virus onto others. Fortunately the measles virus doesn't work like h. zoster, but other viruses can.

I've actually shingles twice - once when I was 16, and again last year at the age of 28. It's no fun.

 

[psbfan9]

When people like this get elected, it will be no time at all before we all die of infectious diseases.

Thom 'PeeKnuckle" Tillis says making employees wash hands after using the restroom is an overreach by the federal government.

http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/thom-tillis-keep-government-out-of-the-bathroom/?dcz=

“I don’t have any problem with Starbucks if they choose to opt out of this policy as long as they post a sign that says, ‘We don’t require our employees to wash their hands after they use the restroom,’” Tillis responded. “The market will take care of that.”

 

[rnatalli]

This whole thing is truly sickening, literally and metaphorically. I would not have a problem with the anti-vaccine movement only affected those who chose this path as it's natural selection at work. But as someone with an 8-month old, you better damn well not bring your unvaccinated kid to the doctor's office where he/she may infect my son who's too young to receive the vaccine. They talk about "Herd Immunity" which sounds like a lot of taking and no giving back.

These folks worry about putting "chemicals" into their kids' bodies. I live in Boston which is a liberal haven and these are the same people who live in homes built over 100 years ago which contains God knows what, who put their kids in carts behind bikes, who believe the science related to climate change, but not vaccines, etc. I definitely lean liberal, but this is truly ridiculous. Here's an idea, how about we start charging these folks with manslaughter when something tragic happens.

 

[Swerd]

This whole thing is truly sickening, literally and metaphorically…
But as someone with an 8-month old, you better damn well not bring your unvaccinated kid to the doctor's office where he/she may infect my son who's too young to receive the vaccine.

I've heard that more and more pediatricians are telling parents to vaccinate your kids, or find a new doctor.

These folks worry about putting "chemicals" into their kids' bodies. I live in Boston which is a liberal haven and these are the same people who live in homes built over 100 years ago which contains God knows what, who put their kids in carts behind bikes, who believe the science related to climate change, but not vaccines, etc.

Good points.

I had a next door neighbor who described herself as one of those "earthy-crunchy moms". She told me all about how she used only cloth diapers, fed her kid only organic foods, nursed her baby until she was four, encouraged "family bed sharing" with her kids, and was against all those vaccines.

At first I tried to be polite about it. I suggested that, when kids are old enough to say "mommie, I want booby", it might be time to wean them . But when I heard about her avoiding vaccinations for the kids, I took her aside and yelled at her for a good 10 minutes, bringing her to tears. I never apologized, and kept after her for the next two years until she finally gave in. Her husband later thanked me, so I believe she really did get them vaccinated.

None of her kids developed autism, but the mom remained a wacko.

 

[lsiberian]

I really hope this trend is reversed. What happens when the measeles comes back and mutates into non vaccinated form with a much higher death rate.

 

[lsiberian]

I've heard that more and more pediatricians are telling parents to vaccinate your kids, or find a new doctor.
Good points.

I had a next door neighbor who described herself as one of those "earthy-crunchy moms". She told me all about how she used only cloth diapers, fed her kid only organic foods, nursed her baby until she was four, encouraged "family bed sharing" with her kids, and was against all those vaccines.

At first I tried to be polite about it. I suggested that, when kids are old enough to say "mommie, I want booby", it might be time to wean them . But when I heard about her avoiding vaccinations for the kids, I took her aside and yelled at her for a good 10 minutes, bringing her to tears. I never apologized, and kept after her for the next two years until she finally gave in. Her husband later thanked me, so I believe she really did get them vaccinated.

None of her kids developed autism, but the mom remained a wacko.

What is this game of thrones? I have nothing against cloth diapers or organic food. I grew up eating food my grandfather grew himself. I definitely miss that. Nothing beat his green beans. They were like crack.

 

[psbfan9]

While this may seem off topic, I think it goes in line with what we're talking about. It also proves that it's not just wacko liberals, like myself, but this non sense crosses all political boundaries.
When people like Thom Tillis are against hand washing saying, "It's a government overreach". What do you think their outlook on vaccines would be?

Again, here's the link to Thom 'Fecal Fingers' Tillis' comments.

http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/thom-tillis-keep-government-out-of-the-bathroom/?dcz=

 

[herbu]

against hand washing

You know good and well that is not true, and not the point he was making.

 

[psbfan9]

You know good and well that is not true, and not the point he was making.

That's exactly the point he point he was making.

 

[Rickster71]

They both tried, opportunistically, to gain political points by favoring watered down state requirements for vaccination, appealing to anti-vaxxers. They deserve widespread condemnation for that.

I didn't realize how long the issue had been going on, until searching a little:
http://freebeacon.com/issues/flashback-when-hillary-and-obama-gave-credence-to-anti-vaccine-theories/
Surprisingly it didn't seem to get the attention of the mainstream press as much as Rand Paul and Christie.